3 ms·

Absolutely! https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=305 https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=305 With Stanford's definition, conse

Absolutely! https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=305 https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=305 With Stanford's definition, consent can be considered null and void because they were drunk at the time, opening up the potential for retroactive revocation of consensual drunk sex.

IgorPartola 9y ago
No. I take issue with the definition of "any alcohol => no ability to consent" but Stanford's definition is pretty clear: there is a point past which you are too drunk to consent. Like, if I found you passed out in a bar bathroom and started fucking you, you wouldn't be able to consent, right? But if you had a beer and said "let's go to my place", you obviously can. There is no law or definition that says "any alcohol automatically means no ability to consent."
- Retric 9y ago
  'any alcohol' != drunk. But the line includes 'judgment is impaired' which is a very loos definition. 'Drunk' has expanded with DUI laws to be include very mild levels of intoxication as people get DUI while not noticeably impaired. Further, nobody is taking blood tests making dunk and consent tricky subjects. Can a 120lb person give consent after 4 shots in 2 hours? How about 6, 7 etc?
  - IgorPartola 9y ago
    And if you look at actual cases that were investigated and went to trial, you won’t see the line of argument “well your honor I had four shots and then I told him ‘yes I really want to have sex with you, you have my consent’ but obviously I could not give consent because I was drunk. The alcohol in my system made me say those words out loud in a clear tone that I made sure he heard and understood.” That’s just not how it goes down. Usually you get a whole lot of victim blaming for being in a bad situation, and no clear enthusiastic verbal consent was given. There is some gray area there and that’s how actual rapists often end up walking free. But in reality if you got enthusiastic clear verbal consent before and after the person took the four shots, and during they didn’t lose consciousness and didn’t stop you, but continued giving you signs that they were still consenting, chances are you are safe. If you don’t have clear and enthusiastic verbal or written consent, don’t have sex. It is pretty simple in practice.
    - Retric 9y ago
      I think the US legal definition is generally reasonable in practice. I am more talking about what various groups use when collecting statistics or worse creating estimates.

IgorPartola 9y ago

No. I take issue with the definition of "any alcohol => no ability to consent" but Stanford's definition is pretty clear: there is a point past which you are too drunk to consent. Like, if I found you passed out in a bar bathroom and started fucking you, you wouldn't be able to consent, right? But if you had a beer and said "let's go to my place", you obviously can. There is no law or definition that says "any alcohol automatically means no ability to consent."

Retric 9y ago
'any alcohol' != drunk. But the line includes 'judgment is impaired' which is a very loos definition. 'Drunk' has expanded with DUI laws to be include very mild levels of intoxication as people get DUI while not noticeably impaired. Further, nobody is taking blood tests making dunk and consent tricky subjects. Can a 120lb person give consent after 4 shots in 2 hours? How about 6, 7 etc?
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  And if you look at actual cases that were investigated and went to trial, you won’t see the line of argument “well your honor I had four shots and then I told him ‘yes I really want to have sex with you, you have my consent’ but obviously I could not give consent because I was drunk. The alcohol in my system made me say those words out loud in a clear tone that I made sure he heard and understood.” That’s just not how it goes down. Usually you get a whole lot of victim blaming for being in a bad situation, and no clear enthusiastic verbal consent was given. There is some gray area there and that’s how actual rapists often end up walking free. But in reality if you got enthusiastic clear verbal consent before and after the person took the four shots, and during they didn’t lose consciousness and didn’t stop you, but continued giving you signs that they were still consenting, chances are you are safe. If you don’t have clear and enthusiastic verbal or written consent, don’t have sex. It is pretty simple in practice.
  - Retric 9y ago
    I think the US legal definition is generally reasonable in practice. I am more talking about what various groups use when collecting statistics or worse creating estimates.