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Democracy is more than just casting and counting votes. It's the biggest trick of tyrants to convince the people that so long as they can vote they're free (see

Democracy is more than just casting and counting votes. It's the biggest trick of tyrants to convince the people that so long as they can vote they're free (see: Putin, Erdogan). Full functioning democracy requires a strong, independent media, quality institutions, an independent judiciary, all of which are accountable and responsive to their constituents. It also requires eternal vigilance because these conditions are vulnerable to despotism, so you always need to be on the lookout (see: Trump, UK tories and the repeal bill, Poland, Hungary)

deleted 9y ago
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aaron-lebo 9y ago
The usual distinction is "democracy" vs liberal democracy. The first is illiberal and the second places an importance on the rule of law.
QAPereo 9y ago
By that fairly holistic definition, I wouldn't particularly call the UK or US democracies. At the very least, not healthy and thriving ones.
mengibar10 9y ago
Very well said. However a true functioning democracy require more than these unfortunately. At least in order to have those well functioning institutions you need an entity that can expose groups who have hijacked them. Countries like Turkey who have been on the losing side of power game for at least couple of centuries, or countries like Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Greece that were non-existent before but either their borders drawn with a ruler on the map or too weak to stand alone are under heavy influence of foreign agents/powers. Heck, even US is under heavy influence of interest groups to the extent that public was sold on to the idea of Iraq's invasion. Even then most Americans opposed the Iraq war but their voices were drowned by heavy media bombardment. Take Iran. Once they had their own elected government but CIA staged a coup [1] and installed Shah. Think for once, if a country is run with democracy, but a real one, would they throw a democratic country and install a dictator instead? US is a very strong country in many respects and hides many large cracks. Don't be fooled by its looks. You need more than institutions to have a real democracy. It is not easy to have people's voice heard. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-rol...
- nine_k 9y ago
  CIA might have installed a different Shah, but the Iranian republic existed since 1906 till 1921, and the new Shah was a son of the previous one. At least, so says Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#From_the_1800s_to_the_1940s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#From_the_1800s_to_the_194...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

aaron-lebo 9y ago

The usual distinction is "democracy" vs liberal democracy. The first is illiberal and the second places an importance on the rule of law.

QAPereo 9y ago

By that fairly holistic definition, I wouldn't particularly call the UK or US democracies. At the very least, not healthy and thriving ones.

mengibar10 9y ago

Very well said. However a true functioning democracy require more than these unfortunately. At least in order to have those well functioning institutions you need an entity that can expose groups who have hijacked them. Countries like Turkey who have been on the losing side of power game for at least couple of centuries, or countries like Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Greece that were non-existent before but either their borders drawn with a ruler on the map or too weak to stand alone are under heavy influence of foreign agents/powers. Heck, even US is under heavy influence of interest groups to the extent that public was sold on to the idea of Iraq's invasion. Even then most Americans opposed the Iraq war but their voices were drowned by heavy media bombardment. Take Iran. Once they had their own elected government but CIA staged a coup [1] and installed Shah. Think for once, if a country is run with democracy, but a real one, would they throw a democratic country and install a dictator instead? US is a very strong country in many respects and hides many large cracks. Don't be fooled by its looks. You need more than institutions to have a real democracy. It is not easy to have people's voice heard. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-rol...

nine_k 9y ago
CIA might have installed a different Shah, but the Iranian republic existed since 1906 till 1921, and the new Shah was a son of the previous one. At least, so says Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#From_the_1800s_to_the_1940s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#From_the_1800s_to_the_194...