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The point is, when I want to turn Wifi off, and use the common UI to do so, it should be off - and not just "in a state where it won't associate with AP's" .. t

by mmjaa 9y ago

The point is, when I want to turn Wifi off, and use the common UI to do so, it should be off - and not just "in a state where it won't associate with AP's" .. this is Apple treating their users like idiots and putting us all at risk as a result of it - and, you have to ask why they do this? The reason is so that they can still harvest data while you're not associated with the AP - covertly, even - so that their location accessory 'feature' gets more data points.. From Apple directly: "For the best experience on your iOS device, try to keep Wi-Fi and Bluetooth turned on." The reason is because Apple are using WiFi for purposes other than those of the average user - data harvesting.

evgen 9y ago
WTF is 'common UI' even supposed to mean in this context? Apple is not treating their users like idiots, they are doing what the users usually want when they flip wireless settings via the control center. This may differ than what you expect, but I am sure you will eventually get over it. The number of people who used the control center to flip wifi/bluetooth for privacy purposes is so vanishingly small as to be a null set, especially when compared to the number of people who simply use the toggle to disconnect from a mediocre wifi connection so that they can use cellular data instead.
- josteink 9y ago
  The common use case for a light switch is that when I switch it off, the light bulb stops receiving power and turns off. Same for my oven, stove top, vacuum cleaner and pretty much every other device I can think of. WTH should the WiFi or Bluetooth switches on my iPhone operate differently? This is another one of those crazy decisions by Apple. And apple being apple means you won’t have any other options either. It should be perfectly acceptable, maybe normal even, to have a problem with that.
  - evgen 9y ago
    They should operate differently because there is a difference between 'disconnect' and 'off'. This is not a binary state. The fact that you and a lot of other people on HN cannot seem to comprehend this or understand why most people actually need 'disconnect' more than they need 'off' is why you have a problem that no one else really cares about.
    - josteink 9y ago
      And when you switch it off, it should go off. Why is that an unreasonable expectation? Where in the history of mobile phones has this toggle meant disconnect? Why should that expectation suddenly arise now? Changing semantics for the same UI, for the same button, without the slightest hint that anything has actually changed... That is simply bad design.
      - burntrelish1273 9y ago
        Yes. Changing privacy and security-implication behavior around without good cause for edge-case "usability" is silly. What happens, if say, a Syrian is killed by their government because they were able to use their gossiping device to locate them? All that iOS 11 privacy work becomes moot if there's a SIGINT fail.
    - mmjaa 9y ago
      Likewise, the fact you can't comprehend that people want off when they mean off, is equally disturbing!
JustSomeNobody 9y ago
You can turn off the “data harvesting” stuff in the privacy settings.

by mmjaa 9y ago

evgen 9y ago

WTF is 'common UI' even supposed to mean in this context? Apple is not treating their users like idiots, they are doing what the users usually want when they flip wireless settings via the control center. This may differ than what you expect, but I am sure you will eventually get over it. The number of people who used the control center to flip wifi/bluetooth for privacy purposes is so vanishingly small as to be a null set, especially when compared to the number of people who simply use the toggle to disconnect from a mediocre wifi connection so that they can use cellular data instead.

josteink 9y ago
The common use case for a light switch is that when I switch it off, the light bulb stops receiving power and turns off. Same for my oven, stove top, vacuum cleaner and pretty much every other device I can think of. WTH should the WiFi or Bluetooth switches on my iPhone operate differently? This is another one of those crazy decisions by Apple. And apple being apple means you won’t have any other options either. It should be perfectly acceptable, maybe normal even, to have a problem with that.
- evgen 9y ago
  They should operate differently because there is a difference between 'disconnect' and 'off'. This is not a binary state. The fact that you and a lot of other people on HN cannot seem to comprehend this or understand why most people actually need 'disconnect' more than they need 'off' is why you have a problem that no one else really cares about.
  - josteink 9y ago
    And when you switch it off, it should go off. Why is that an unreasonable expectation? Where in the history of mobile phones has this toggle meant disconnect? Why should that expectation suddenly arise now? Changing semantics for the same UI, for the same button, without the slightest hint that anything has actually changed... That is simply bad design.
    - burntrelish1273 9y ago
      Yes. Changing privacy and security-implication behavior around without good cause for edge-case "usability" is silly. What happens, if say, a Syrian is killed by their government because they were able to use their gossiping device to locate them? All that iOS 11 privacy work becomes moot if there's a SIGINT fail.
  - mmjaa 9y ago
    Likewise, the fact you can't comprehend that people want off when they mean off, is equally disturbing!

JustSomeNobody 9y ago

You can turn off the “data harvesting” stuff in the privacy settings.