4 ms·

First that I am getting a lot of downvotes because I don't support any side and I will get more in this comment. It is hard to sum up everything. I am going to

First that I am getting a lot of downvotes because I don't support any side and I will get more in this comment. It is hard to sum up everything. I am going to give you my biased opinion. We were a dictatorship 40 years ago, he died and put a king to govern Spain. The king created the democracy. We always had very different cultures (vasque country, cataluña). They got privileges during the democracy. Cataluña is an important province of Spain with strong economics (some of them because of the past privileges). They just decide as they have different language/culture they don't want to be part of spain and they want do things like they want (like any one that wants to be independent). The government (formed by people who supported or it is linked somehow to the dictatorship in the past) used the problem of Cataluña to get votes, but at the same time they make deals with the Catalans. Catalans always blame central government. The corruption is quite relevant in the country (all the country), the first Catalan politics who wanted the independence are under trials because of corruption, the same for the central government. Now, I think, some catalan politics want the independence to avoid the spanish law. The central government use the catalans to avoid talking about the corruption issues. Both sides are putting people against people. Only few people really want to have an open debate, but noone lets them. Fight is starting. We didn't even have an open debate to discuss the type of independence, like competletely independent or an associate state, but Catalans want a binding vote right now.

wbillingsley 9y ago
IndyRef didn't hammer out all the details first either. Neither did Brexit. Before the detail-hammering starts, it needs the decision that people actually want it in the first place (the referendum) otherwise it's all moot. A two-referendum model isn't necessarily a bad idea -- if you hold the first referendum on negotiating independence, and the second on executing it. Though I suspect you'd need to make that clear before the first referendum, otherwise it'd seem like "Hmm, that wasn't the answer we wanted; perhaps if we ask you the question again..." It having gone this far, though I could be wrong, I can't currently see denying a referendum working for anybody. Spain seems to be pursuing a kind of One Spain policy, and I doubt the Catalan populace will go along with that -- seems more likely to get their hackles up to say there's no way they could have independence even if they all wanted it.
- jorgemf 9y ago
  This is worse done than Brexit. Brexit had a public debate, this didn't. For some people being independent also means to be part of the European Union, let the Barcelona FC play in the Spanish league, getting funding from the central government of Spain, no borders, etc. There is only hate in both sides that has been fed by politics during years. I am quite sure an open debate would have reach a middle point that would have make happier everybody. Catalans that don't want to be independent are also angry with the central government because they want the right to vote. Numbers were never made public but 80% of catalans want the right to vote and only 33% have stated clearly they want to be independent whatever it means. If people go to vote probably they won't be independent, but with this referendum how is being done a lot of people are not even going to care and only nacionalist will vote.

wbillingsley 9y ago

IndyRef didn't hammer out all the details first either. Neither did Brexit. Before the detail-hammering starts, it needs the decision that people actually want it in the first place (the referendum) otherwise it's all moot. A two-referendum model isn't necessarily a bad idea -- if you hold the first referendum on negotiating independence, and the second on executing it. Though I suspect you'd need to make that clear before the first referendum, otherwise it'd seem like "Hmm, that wasn't the answer we wanted; perhaps if we ask you the question again..." It having gone this far, though I could be wrong, I can't currently see denying a referendum working for anybody. Spain seems to be pursuing a kind of One Spain policy, and I doubt the Catalan populace will go along with that -- seems more likely to get their hackles up to say there's no way they could have independence even if they all wanted it.

jorgemf 9y ago
This is worse done than Brexit. Brexit had a public debate, this didn't. For some people being independent also means to be part of the European Union, let the Barcelona FC play in the Spanish league, getting funding from the central government of Spain, no borders, etc. There is only hate in both sides that has been fed by politics during years. I am quite sure an open debate would have reach a middle point that would have make happier everybody. Catalans that don't want to be independent are also angry with the central government because they want the right to vote. Numbers were never made public but 80% of catalans want the right to vote and only 33% have stated clearly they want to be independent whatever it means. If people go to vote probably they won't be independent, but with this referendum how is being done a lot of people are not even going to care and only nacionalist will vote.