5 ms·

SeaMonkey (mozilla suite) is the only web browser I have ever truly enjoyed using. I use the browser, email client, irc client, address book, and calendar every

by jd3 9y ago

SeaMonkey (mozilla suite) is the only web browser I have ever truly enjoyed using. I use the browser, email client, irc client, address book, and calendar every single day. Extremely disappointed that Mozilla has basically given a big middle finger to the SeaMonkey/Thunderbird (comm-central) communities with the removal of XUL/XPCOM add-ons, necessity of multi-process, introduction of webextensions, removal of support for complete themes (show me a single Persona that doesn't look like shit), etc. in FF 57. The reverberations of this decision are so stark that the SeaMonkey council has announced that it can no longer build off of the nightly mozilla-central tree; they're in the process of building RELEASES from the Firefox ESR branch. It's an absolute mess.

floatboth 9y ago
> show me a single Persona that doesn't look like shit https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/herbal-guitar/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/herbal-guitar... — especially with the new Photon UI (57)
- jd3 9y ago
  ehh I know taste is subjective, but (on Win10, at least) I find this very very ugly. latest nightly. https://i.imgur.com/z3cM8ve.jpg https://i.imgur.com/z3cM8ve.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Oa875od.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Oa875od.jpg
  - 51Cards 9y ago
    I find it incredibly cluttered. Seems like the push for vertical page space has lead to crunching everything together into 2 lines while ignoring usability.
    - jd3 9y ago
      I agree that the Firefox user interface feels way too cluttered these days. I know this is a highly unpopular opinion, but I find the way that the Suite (SeaMonkey) allows you to collapse/expand title bars infinitely more functional than whatever Mozilla has been doing over the past decade. https://i.imgur.com/b5ZpLaO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/b5ZpLaO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Se4rYJc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Se4rYJc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ynphRKv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ynphRKv.jpg
    - floatboth 9y ago
      As cluttered as you make it. Remove the separate search bar and hide the useless buttons, looks good IMO: https://i.imgur.com/Wi4X76s.png https://i.imgur.com/Wi4X76s.png
SirensOfTitan 9y ago
Very few people are bothered by the movement to WebExtensions, multi-process, or removal of complete themes. Many, however, have stopped using the browser as it has felt slow and clunky for quite a while now. The recent changes have actually attracted me back to the platform after a decade of using Chrome.
- 51Cards 9y ago
  I am however one of those. While I understand the technical reasons for the switch I don't think it has been handled well. Extensions I rely on daily are going to cease functioning because the WebExtensions API isn't mature enough for the developers to migrate. Are they going to wait? Probably not... most affected will probably abandon their projects because FF rushed the transition and their user base is about to drop off a cliff due to no fault of their own. I would feel pretty abandoned.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Rushed? It was announced more than two years ago, as I recall. Hmm... August, 2015.
    - 51Cards 9y ago
      When it was announced is somewhat irrelevant. Developers are saying Web Extensions still isn't able to support the needed functionality. That needed to be addressed before shutting down the older APIs. That is where I feel developers have been left hanging... given a "shutdown" date when the replacement isn't even ready yet.
  - 482794793792894 9y ago
    They had to sort of rush it, because they wanted to rush out multiprocess, to stop the bleeding of users (which has very much worked [1]). And then they needed to follow up with the switch to WebExtensions relatively quickly, so that extension authors wouldn't start porting their extensions to multiprocess and then after that effort have to rewrite their extensions to be WebExtensions-compatible. They wanted extension authors to be able to just directly port to WebExtensions. And I do think that a lot more extension authors would have probably abandoned their projects, if they had just ported to multiprocess and then had to port to WebExtensions. Also, a lot of extensions sort of just continue to function without active maintenance. Those are why it would have just as well been really disruptive to space out multiprocess and WebExtensions by a few years. Then we'd have to start over at 0 extensions twice. [1] Multiprocess was rolled out in Firefox 48, on the 2nd August 2016: http://netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=1&qpaf=&qpcustom=Firefox&qpcustomb=0&qpsp=200&qpnp=24&qptimeframe=M http://netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=1&qpaf=&qpcustom...

by jd3 9y ago

floatboth 9y ago

> show me a single Persona that doesn't look like shit https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/herbal-guitar/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/herbal-guitar... — especially with the new Photon UI (57)

jd3 9y ago
ehh I know taste is subjective, but (on Win10, at least) I find this very very ugly. latest nightly. https://i.imgur.com/z3cM8ve.jpg https://i.imgur.com/z3cM8ve.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Oa875od.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Oa875od.jpg
- 51Cards 9y ago
  I find it incredibly cluttered. Seems like the push for vertical page space has lead to crunching everything together into 2 lines while ignoring usability.
  - jd3 9y ago
    I agree that the Firefox user interface feels way too cluttered these days. I know this is a highly unpopular opinion, but I find the way that the Suite (SeaMonkey) allows you to collapse/expand title bars infinitely more functional than whatever Mozilla has been doing over the past decade. https://i.imgur.com/b5ZpLaO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/b5ZpLaO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Se4rYJc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Se4rYJc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ynphRKv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ynphRKv.jpg
  - floatboth 9y ago
    As cluttered as you make it. Remove the separate search bar and hide the useless buttons, looks good IMO: https://i.imgur.com/Wi4X76s.png https://i.imgur.com/Wi4X76s.png

SirensOfTitan 9y ago

Very few people are bothered by the movement to WebExtensions, multi-process, or removal of complete themes. Many, however, have stopped using the browser as it has felt slow and clunky for quite a while now. The recent changes have actually attracted me back to the platform after a decade of using Chrome.

51Cards 9y ago
I am however one of those. While I understand the technical reasons for the switch I don't think it has been handled well. Extensions I rely on daily are going to cease functioning because the WebExtensions API isn't mature enough for the developers to migrate. Are they going to wait? Probably not... most affected will probably abandon their projects because FF rushed the transition and their user base is about to drop off a cliff due to no fault of their own. I would feel pretty abandoned.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Rushed? It was announced more than two years ago, as I recall. Hmm... August, 2015.
  - 51Cards 9y ago
    When it was announced is somewhat irrelevant. Developers are saying Web Extensions still isn't able to support the needed functionality. That needed to be addressed before shutting down the older APIs. That is where I feel developers have been left hanging... given a "shutdown" date when the replacement isn't even ready yet.
- 482794793792894 9y ago
  They had to sort of rush it, because they wanted to rush out multiprocess, to stop the bleeding of users (which has very much worked [1]). And then they needed to follow up with the switch to WebExtensions relatively quickly, so that extension authors wouldn't start porting their extensions to multiprocess and then after that effort have to rewrite their extensions to be WebExtensions-compatible. They wanted extension authors to be able to just directly port to WebExtensions. And I do think that a lot more extension authors would have probably abandoned their projects, if they had just ported to multiprocess and then had to port to WebExtensions. Also, a lot of extensions sort of just continue to function without active maintenance. Those are why it would have just as well been really disruptive to space out multiprocess and WebExtensions by a few years. Then we'd have to start over at 0 extensions twice. [1] Multiprocess was rolled out in Firefox 48, on the 2nd August 2016: http://netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=1&qpaf=&qpcustom=Firefox&qpcustomb=0&qpsp=200&qpnp=24&qptimeframe=M http://netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=1&qpaf=&qpcustom...