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I think I will memorize and remember your comment to show that America is special and totally unique in the world. I presume you're a European, and you call it

I think I will memorize and remember your comment to show that America is special and totally unique in the world. I presume you're a European, and you call it nothing special that the State forced the removal of a private form of expression. In America every single adult of average or slightly below average intelligence knows they have a first-amendment right to say whatever they want. The Supreme Court, which is totally separate from the executive and legislative branches, and has members appointed for life (who often don't end up beholden to the people who appointed them) interpret the Constitution with total independence. While you call Spain's action "nothing to see", America is a shining beacon of free speech whose transcendent importance has not even made it to the average educated person (you) in Europe, let alone the whole of its population. Anyone who objects to American exceptionalism would do well to reflect on the parent comment's nonchalance. >Just a bit of feedback. This weekend there is a referendum in Cataluña, a province of Spain, about their independentism. This is not supported by the central government and it is consider illegal, and that is the reason the app was removed from the PlayStore, the court ordered it. >Nothing so see here unless you want to talk about politics. >EDIT: as you want to talk about politics, them you should have a bit of background. I think this is a good video (spanish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbeyN2fuz_4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbeyN2fuz_4

jorgemf 9y ago
First, are you form the USA? Because America has also Venezuela, Cuba, and more countries. Second, are you telling me we are worse than you because of this after what your president have done? "Nothing to see here unless you want to talk about politics". The law is the law, Catalans supported the law and that law is what forbids an unilateral movement to break the country. Bear in mind the Catalans said this vote is valuable to consider themselves independents. There is a big discussion about this topic in Spain, with a lot of free speach. You should consider understand better the country you are talking about before make those claims to fulfill your "American ego".
- logicallee 9y ago
  Yes, the entirety of my comment refers to the United States. So, where you say "The law is the law", in the United States there is also a higher law which is the constitution, and which protects free speech. It's "stronger than" the law. Everybody in America knows this. So my point, which, respectfully, you have just confirmed, is that this idea has not made it back to Europe. You confirm this in your comment stating "the law is the law" and that people support it, and you state that this should be enough. (In the United States this is not enough, and what you describe cannot occur due to the philosophy and legal structure: if Congress passed a law making political discussion of something like the independence of a state illegal, then even if people supported that law, the supreme court would rule the law itself unconstitutional and it would be struck down. Because in the United States freedom of speech is higher than the law, and protected by the supreme court in the manner I described; it's a separate branch of government.)
  - jorgemf 9y ago
    Mate, the constitution is what makes this illegal. They cannot do a binding referendum unilaterally with any open dialog. This referendum is not a discussion, or for asking opinions, is to create an separately country. Well, it is not even clear what they exactly want, they just say they want to be independent, but nothing how or the trade of.
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
Whoa. Don’t characterise the whole of Europe based on the comments of one single imperalist-minded European.
- jorgemf 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, why am I a imperialist-minded European? What makes you think so?
- logicallee 9y ago
  It's just that their comment was very surprising to me. Spain is obviously completely modern in every way and a full-size EU participant: therefore, their comment (and followup, "the law is the law") reveals that this structural protection for the idea of free speech, that there is something higher than the law, isn't baked into the structure of modern European democracies via a separated judicial branch or analogous institute of checks and balances. Instead, European democracies are apparently governed by law. If I'm mistaken, then which European country did you have in mind, which couldn't decide to do the same thing, because their respective institutions would strike down the law as unconstitutional (even if it had majority support)?
  - jorgemf 9y ago
    1) It is a binding referendum (this is what some catalan politics say). It is not about what they think, but about what are they going to do. The binding part is what makes this completely illegal. 2) Some people don't take is seriously because it is against the law (there is a law which they can use to do a referendum like this but it needs support from central government and an open dialog that is not happening) 3) Catalans agree with the law. The Catalan court was who said this referendum was illegal. In any democracy you must govern by the law. The people chose the government and they make the laws. What is wrong with this? If you want a different government you vote something different, but Catalans are not doing this either. This process is not supported by some independist.
    - logicallee 9y ago
euyyn 9y ago
In Spain every single adult of average or slightly below average intelligence knows they have the right to say whatever they want. If you honestly thought the US was unique about that, you need to travel or read more.
- thethirdone 9y ago
  What is happening currently shows that the right to free speech is not respected by the Spanish government. AFAIK, Spain doesn't have any law that guarantees the citizens are free to speak there mind without fear of censorship from the government. It does however have laws restricting speech (glorification of crimes). The US on the other hand, included it in the first amendment of its constitution. Much of the rest of the world does not have the guarantees on free speech that the US does (it is hard to get much freer). Germany for example restricts criticism of the state, denial of the holocaust, etc. The US is fairly unique in preserving the freedom of speech to the degree that it does. There are others such as Poland or Norway that also make strong guarantees, but Spain is not among them.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    > What is happening currently shows that the right to free speech is not respected by the Spanish government. You might have missed the non-stop concentrations of people claiming for independence. Or if you think the app being banned from the Play Store is by a private individual developed using their own funds, you should know it's not the case.
    - thethirdone 9y ago
      > You might have missed the non-stop concentrations of people claiming for independence. Are you saying that the Spanish have the right to free speech because they claim independence? Any person can do whatever is within their power (such as speak their mind or kill somebody); the right to free speech is the assurance that the Government won't interfere (as they should with murder). > Or if you think the app being banned from the Play Store is by a private individual developed using their own funds, you should know it's not the case. I am not sure what you are trying to insinuate with this.

jorgemf 9y ago

First, are you form the USA? Because America has also Venezuela, Cuba, and more countries. Second, are you telling me we are worse than you because of this after what your president have done? "Nothing to see here unless you want to talk about politics". The law is the law, Catalans supported the law and that law is what forbids an unilateral movement to break the country. Bear in mind the Catalans said this vote is valuable to consider themselves independents. There is a big discussion about this topic in Spain, with a lot of free speach. You should consider understand better the country you are talking about before make those claims to fulfill your "American ego".

logicallee 9y ago
Yes, the entirety of my comment refers to the United States. So, where you say "The law is the law", in the United States there is also a higher law which is the constitution, and which protects free speech. It's "stronger than" the law. Everybody in America knows this. So my point, which, respectfully, you have just confirmed, is that this idea has not made it back to Europe. You confirm this in your comment stating "the law is the law" and that people support it, and you state that this should be enough. (In the United States this is not enough, and what you describe cannot occur due to the philosophy and legal structure: if Congress passed a law making political discussion of something like the independence of a state illegal, then even if people supported that law, the supreme court would rule the law itself unconstitutional and it would be struck down. Because in the United States freedom of speech is higher than the law, and protected by the supreme court in the manner I described; it's a separate branch of government.)
- jorgemf 9y ago
  Mate, the constitution is what makes this illegal. They cannot do a binding referendum unilaterally with any open dialog. This referendum is not a discussion, or for asking opinions, is to create an separately country. Well, it is not even clear what they exactly want, they just say they want to be independent, but nothing how or the trade of.

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago

Whoa. Don’t characterise the whole of Europe based on the comments of one single imperalist-minded European.

jorgemf 9y ago
Out of curiosity, why am I a imperialist-minded European? What makes you think so?
logicallee 9y ago
It's just that their comment was very surprising to me. Spain is obviously completely modern in every way and a full-size EU participant: therefore, their comment (and followup, "the law is the law") reveals that this structural protection for the idea of free speech, that there is something higher than the law, isn't baked into the structure of modern European democracies via a separated judicial branch or analogous institute of checks and balances. Instead, European democracies are apparently governed by law. If I'm mistaken, then which European country did you have in mind, which couldn't decide to do the same thing, because their respective institutions would strike down the law as unconstitutional (even if it had majority support)?
- jorgemf 9y ago
  1) It is a binding referendum (this is what some catalan politics say). It is not about what they think, but about what are they going to do. The binding part is what makes this completely illegal. 2) Some people don't take is seriously because it is against the law (there is a law which they can use to do a referendum like this but it needs support from central government and an open dialog that is not happening) 3) Catalans agree with the law. The Catalan court was who said this referendum was illegal. In any democracy you must govern by the law. The people chose the government and they make the laws. What is wrong with this? If you want a different government you vote something different, but Catalans are not doing this either. This process is not supported by some independist.
  - logicallee 9y ago

euyyn 9y ago

In Spain every single adult of average or slightly below average intelligence knows they have the right to say whatever they want. If you honestly thought the US was unique about that, you need to travel or read more.

thethirdone 9y ago
What is happening currently shows that the right to free speech is not respected by the Spanish government. AFAIK, Spain doesn't have any law that guarantees the citizens are free to speak there mind without fear of censorship from the government. It does however have laws restricting speech (glorification of crimes). The US on the other hand, included it in the first amendment of its constitution. Much of the rest of the world does not have the guarantees on free speech that the US does (it is hard to get much freer). Germany for example restricts criticism of the state, denial of the holocaust, etc. The US is fairly unique in preserving the freedom of speech to the degree that it does. There are others such as Poland or Norway that also make strong guarantees, but Spain is not among them.
- euyyn 9y ago
  > What is happening currently shows that the right to free speech is not respected by the Spanish government. You might have missed the non-stop concentrations of people claiming for independence. Or if you think the app being banned from the Play Store is by a private individual developed using their own funds, you should know it's not the case.
  - thethirdone 9y ago
    > You might have missed the non-stop concentrations of people claiming for independence. Are you saying that the Spanish have the right to free speech because they claim independence? Any person can do whatever is within their power (such as speak their mind or kill somebody); the right to free speech is the assurance that the Government won't interfere (as they should with murder). > Or if you think the app being banned from the Play Store is by a private individual developed using their own funds, you should know it's not the case. I am not sure what you are trying to insinuate with this.