4 ms·

Anti-separatism is often just tribalism based on the dominant tribe.

meri_dian 9y ago
There can only be a relatively dominant tribe if 1. The smaller tribes refuse to join with the larger tribe or 2. The larger tribe refuses to accept the smaller tribes. Both are bad and should be rejected.
- abiox 9y ago
  > Both are bad and should be rejected why?
- lotharbot 9y ago
  regarding 2: there's some nuance needed for what it means to "accept" the smaller tribes -- on whose terms? (Which leads directly to 1 -- if the larger tribe's terms are onerous, unfair, or oppressive, the smaller tribe should reject integration.) A friend of mine is at an institution which has just started a "diversity" initiative to get people with different ethnic backgrounds in to the institution. But it's unclear whether they're willing to accept different perspectives, or whether they're really just looking for people who think the same but have different external appearances. Does it really make sense to join a "tribe" that wants to wipe out your distinctiveness and make you think and act just like they already do?
euyyn 9y ago
So what would be the dominant tribe for all of us that want the EU to integrate further?
- lotharbot 9y ago
  I'm not particularly aware of the details of EU politics and couldn't name the major factions. But I will point out that "integrate further" can itself become a tribal identity -- in some cases a fairly oppressive one, if "integrate" is taken to mean "get rid of any culturally distinctive ideas or practices that might possibly cause friction". Not saying this is specifically true of EU integration, just that it's a possible form of tribalism.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    Well that's a bit my point: There's no meaning to "culturally distinctive ideas" in Europe, because all of our cultures are distinct. The only thing joining the continent together and moving the Union towards more integration is a relative homogeneity of values. And preserving our cultural richness is one of those values.
- sievebrain 9y ago
  Pro-EU federalists of course.

There can only be a relatively dominant tribe if 1. The smaller tribes refuse to join with the larger tribe or 2. The larger tribe refuses to accept the smaller tribes. Both are bad and should be rejected.

abiox 9y ago
> Both are bad and should be rejected why?
lotharbot 9y ago
regarding 2: there's some nuance needed for what it means to "accept" the smaller tribes -- on whose terms? (Which leads directly to 1 -- if the larger tribe's terms are onerous, unfair, or oppressive, the smaller tribe should reject integration.) A friend of mine is at an institution which has just started a "diversity" initiative to get people with different ethnic backgrounds in to the institution. But it's unclear whether they're willing to accept different perspectives, or whether they're really just looking for people who think the same but have different external appearances. Does it really make sense to join a "tribe" that wants to wipe out your distinctiveness and make you think and act just like they already do?

euyyn 9y ago

So what would be the dominant tribe for all of us that want the EU to integrate further?

lotharbot 9y ago
I'm not particularly aware of the details of EU politics and couldn't name the major factions. But I will point out that "integrate further" can itself become a tribal identity -- in some cases a fairly oppressive one, if "integrate" is taken to mean "get rid of any culturally distinctive ideas or practices that might possibly cause friction". Not saying this is specifically true of EU integration, just that it's a possible form of tribalism.
- euyyn 9y ago
  Well that's a bit my point: There's no meaning to "culturally distinctive ideas" in Europe, because all of our cultures are distinct. The only thing joining the continent together and moving the Union towards more integration is a relative homogeneity of values. And preserving our cultural richness is one of those values.
sievebrain 9y ago
Pro-EU federalists of course.