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First, it is against the law because the court has said so. Another topic of discussion is the law, but this is something some people want to talk about and the

First, it is against the law because the court has said so. Another topic of discussion is the law, but this is something some people want to talk about and there are way to do something like this. Some politics are open to discuss, most of them no (mostly because the use this as a distraction for other stuff). The referendum is a big mistake because of what you said, lack of communication and not willing to talk on both sides. I think it is very stupid, you have the central government full of corruption that uses Cataluña and the independence to get votes from the nationalist and as a distraction. You have the Catalan politics that want an independence but remaining in Europe, with (economic) support from the government of Spain and only want to change a little bit the law in their interest and don't provide economic resources to the rest of Spain. And at the same time the central government used the catalonians politics to get the votes they needed at the same time given them some privileges other parts of Spain doesn't have.

marak830 9y ago
"First, it is against the law because the court has said so." .... What? If I said you couldn't talk about me slaughtering 1000 people would that be okay if I was an officer of the court. That's a stupid reason. "there are way to do something like this" - which are being blocked!(sorry to cut off a bit, but you can read up for full quote). "The referendum is a big mistake"...(he said more). You may be right, but who will know if they can't communicate. At the end of the day I don't agree nor disagree with your personal politics, but silencing an opponent only gives them more power in the long run, and in the short term makes everyone wonder what is being hidden. Edit: changed not to nor dn autocorrect Edit2: jorgemf -sory threads too long I can't reply to you. Look I don't 'disagree' with you per se, but I'll never agree with censorship. It doesn't matter who agreed to what, why should any government stop it's citizens from talking about an issue. The government is suppose to be a representive of the people, no mater what country you are in(if not, expect those same people to remove that government eventually). They may very well be wrong, but unless it is discussed in an open forum, it will only lead to resentment and eventually bloodshed. It has been a visible fact over human history, repressing the speech of the populace, has never worked well for the repressors.
- jorgemf 9y ago
  It was the constitutional court, and there were a trial. The constitution says it is illegal, the same constitution the catalans signed years ago. They cannot do it unilaterally. Don't get me wrong, I want them to decide by themselves. But I want politics to tell them the truth and don't use the population for their own interests. And don't use the referendum to make people hate other people as they are doing now. First tell them the type of independence you want, it is not the same to be completely independent than a associate state. I think people are fighting for the independence but for different ones. And don't use the indpendence of cataluña to put the rest of spain against them (some politics said you should vote them to avoid breaking spain, and few months later making deals with the politics of Cataluña that support the independence and giving them more privileges).
- jorgemf 9y ago
  > I'll never agree with censorship. Some politics want to open a public debate, but other don't let them (sadly) > why should any government stop it's citizens from talking about an issue They shouldn't, but what happens it that the use the independence to get votes. So basically a lot of Spain supports the censorship (sadly again) > but unless it is discussed in an open forum, it will only lead to resentment and eventually bloodshed. This is what I think is happening right now. The bloodshed is starting. I think we agree in a lot of things. I am not against a vote for independence, I am against everything is happening around and how is everything happening. This is not the way.
- mdekkers 9y ago
  I'll never agree with censorship. Funny you mention that. I live here (I´m not Spanish or Catalan) and all I see is towns and cities completely plastered with variants of "Vote yes!" and not a single flyer, banner, or poster with "Vote no". There is no information, only the whipping up of the masses. Yesterday in my village there was a massive banner stating "Say hello to the Catalan Republic!". All of this is paid for by public funds. It shouldn´t be. There is no "organised anti-independence movement" as such. There are anti-independence political parties, but they lack the funding of the insanely massive PR campaign that is currently being waged. Then there is the intimidation. I am a quiet neighbor, don´t bother anyone, and mostly want to get on with my life in peace. I frequently have Catalans yelling at me to get the fuck out of their country. The xenophobia here, as well as in Barcelona, is at an insane pitch. These fuckers can have their independence, and sink in the sea for all I care. I have lived in many countries over the years, and have never been in a less welcoming place.

marak830 9y ago

"First, it is against the law because the court has said so." .... What? If I said you couldn't talk about me slaughtering 1000 people would that be okay if I was an officer of the court. That's a stupid reason. "there are way to do something like this" - which are being blocked!(sorry to cut off a bit, but you can read up for full quote). "The referendum is a big mistake"...(he said more). You may be right, but who will know if they can't communicate. At the end of the day I don't agree nor disagree with your personal politics, but silencing an opponent only gives them more power in the long run, and in the short term makes everyone wonder what is being hidden. Edit: changed not to nor dn autocorrect Edit2: jorgemf -sory threads too long I can't reply to you. Look I don't 'disagree' with you per se, but I'll never agree with censorship. It doesn't matter who agreed to what, why should any government stop it's citizens from talking about an issue. The government is suppose to be a representive of the people, no mater what country you are in(if not, expect those same people to remove that government eventually). They may very well be wrong, but unless it is discussed in an open forum, it will only lead to resentment and eventually bloodshed. It has been a visible fact over human history, repressing the speech of the populace, has never worked well for the repressors.

jorgemf 9y ago
It was the constitutional court, and there were a trial. The constitution says it is illegal, the same constitution the catalans signed years ago. They cannot do it unilaterally. Don't get me wrong, I want them to decide by themselves. But I want politics to tell them the truth and don't use the population for their own interests. And don't use the referendum to make people hate other people as they are doing now. First tell them the type of independence you want, it is not the same to be completely independent than a associate state. I think people are fighting for the independence but for different ones. And don't use the indpendence of cataluña to put the rest of spain against them (some politics said you should vote them to avoid breaking spain, and few months later making deals with the politics of Cataluña that support the independence and giving them more privileges).
jorgemf 9y ago
> I'll never agree with censorship. Some politics want to open a public debate, but other don't let them (sadly) > why should any government stop it's citizens from talking about an issue They shouldn't, but what happens it that the use the independence to get votes. So basically a lot of Spain supports the censorship (sadly again) > but unless it is discussed in an open forum, it will only lead to resentment and eventually bloodshed. This is what I think is happening right now. The bloodshed is starting. I think we agree in a lot of things. I am not against a vote for independence, I am against everything is happening around and how is everything happening. This is not the way.
mdekkers 9y ago
I'll never agree with censorship. Funny you mention that. I live here (I´m not Spanish or Catalan) and all I see is towns and cities completely plastered with variants of "Vote yes!" and not a single flyer, banner, or poster with "Vote no". There is no information, only the whipping up of the masses. Yesterday in my village there was a massive banner stating "Say hello to the Catalan Republic!". All of this is paid for by public funds. It shouldn´t be. There is no "organised anti-independence movement" as such. There are anti-independence political parties, but they lack the funding of the insanely massive PR campaign that is currently being waged. Then there is the intimidation. I am a quiet neighbor, don´t bother anyone, and mostly want to get on with my life in peace. I frequently have Catalans yelling at me to get the fuck out of their country. The xenophobia here, as well as in Barcelona, is at an insane pitch. These fuckers can have their independence, and sink in the sea for all I care. I have lived in many countries over the years, and have never been in a less welcoming place.