5 ms·

I often wonder at what point should we (as programmers) ignore a countries ruling if we disagree with it. (Note I'm not arguing for or against here, I don't kn

I often wonder at what point should we (as programmers) ignore a countries ruling if we disagree with it. (Note I'm not arguing for or against here, I don't know enough about the situation but thought it may be an interesting conversation). We (generally) have the knowledge to get around most restrictions, some of us can even bypass enforced walls. I do wonder what it would take for a large subset of techs to say 'screw this, we're going to flood their airwaves, satlinks, reroute all out out traffic' etc. (Yes I know this is an impossibility, I'm theorizing here). Edit(fat thumbs(

organsnyder 9y ago
Despite the borderless appearance of connected networks, we still operate within society. We either need to operate within societal rules, or make an overt decision to subvert them. No different than any other activity, really, except that we may not live in the jurisdiction we're respecting/subverting (though mail fraud has been a thing for hundreds of years).
- marak830 9y ago
  You are right, and honestly the more I think about it, the more I worry about it being a bad idea. Or less a bad idea, and more a 'most likely to steer in a bad Direction's sort of idea as, honestly, humanity doesn't really have a 'decent' direction yet haha.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    We're all headed in the same direction, at slightly varying rates.
    - marak830 9y ago
      My wife will give birth in 6 months, I surely hope it's a good direction!
    - KGIII 9y ago
      Entropy. It's the law.
gnbfrdjng 9y ago
I don’t think it is generally in your interest to fight these things, or really anyone’s interest: - the app can still be side loaded. - you want simple, explanable resolutions to these things - supporting this is a political statement. If you’re not based there, this could be stupid at best and leave you in contempt of court at worst (which is about as bad as it gets in the US at least). Some things are worth taking a stand for; i’d argue strongly against supporting the app in this case as applying the same logic would have allowed the south to peacefully seceed in the american civil war. Best leave this up to the parent government UNLESS you’re willing to argue for human rights violations or something that would go through international courts. I can’t imagine Google or even the employees would want that.
- marak830 9y ago
  Oh in this case I agree, I was just thinking out loud. Not that we(programmers/techs) could come to a concensus anyway, was just a side track I thought would make for an interesting discussion :-)
barkingcat 9y ago
Sure if you are prepared to go to war. At some point, a company will have enough funds to purchase its own military (aka corporate security department) to go toe-to-toe with a nation state's military. At that point, it would be a return to an era, for example, when the British East India Company can trade opium and wage war on behalf of the English government because they disagree with a country's internal anti-drug laws.
- creaghpatr 9y ago
  In fact, Google purchased Boston Dynamics awhile back, although they sold to another tech giant, Softbank. https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/08/softbank-boston-dynamics-alphabet-google-robots-schaft/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/08/softbank-boston-dynamics... Cyberpunk speculating aside, I'm pretty sure Big Food companies (Coke, Monsonto, Kraft, etc) have private security contractors - due to the sheer amount of physical assets they control, it would be irresponsible to shareholders if they didn't.
  - tomjakubowski 9y ago
    Coca Cola's bottling partner in Colombia was, quite famously, accused of using mercenaries to murder labor organizers in the early 00s. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/26/world/union-says-coca-cola-in-colombia-uses-thugs.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/26/world/union-says-coca-cola... Similar accusations were made against Coke's Guatemalan bottler a few years back. Of course, about a hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon for companies to use hired muscle to harass, beat, and even murder labor activists in the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  > At some point, a company will have enough funds to purchase its own military I don't expect funding is the only big barrier between a company and its possession of a military force here.
  - barkingcat 9y ago
lostlogin 9y ago
There have been plenty of examples of this and will continue to be. The most obvious recent example that I can think of would be Uber and the way they blocked regulators from seeing what was really happening.

organsnyder 9y ago

Despite the borderless appearance of connected networks, we still operate within society. We either need to operate within societal rules, or make an overt decision to subvert them. No different than any other activity, really, except that we may not live in the jurisdiction we're respecting/subverting (though mail fraud has been a thing for hundreds of years).

marak830 9y ago
You are right, and honestly the more I think about it, the more I worry about it being a bad idea. Or less a bad idea, and more a 'most likely to steer in a bad Direction's sort of idea as, honestly, humanity doesn't really have a 'decent' direction yet haha.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  We're all headed in the same direction, at slightly varying rates.
  - marak830 9y ago
    My wife will give birth in 6 months, I surely hope it's a good direction!
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Entropy. It's the law.

gnbfrdjng 9y ago

I don’t think it is generally in your interest to fight these things, or really anyone’s interest: - the app can still be side loaded. - you want simple, explanable resolutions to these things - supporting this is a political statement. If you’re not based there, this could be stupid at best and leave you in contempt of court at worst (which is about as bad as it gets in the US at least). Some things are worth taking a stand for; i’d argue strongly against supporting the app in this case as applying the same logic would have allowed the south to peacefully seceed in the american civil war. Best leave this up to the parent government UNLESS you’re willing to argue for human rights violations or something that would go through international courts. I can’t imagine Google or even the employees would want that.

marak830 9y ago
Oh in this case I agree, I was just thinking out loud. Not that we(programmers/techs) could come to a concensus anyway, was just a side track I thought would make for an interesting discussion :-)

barkingcat 9y ago

Sure if you are prepared to go to war. At some point, a company will have enough funds to purchase its own military (aka corporate security department) to go toe-to-toe with a nation state's military. At that point, it would be a return to an era, for example, when the British East India Company can trade opium and wage war on behalf of the English government because they disagree with a country's internal anti-drug laws.

creaghpatr 9y ago
In fact, Google purchased Boston Dynamics awhile back, although they sold to another tech giant, Softbank. https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/08/softbank-boston-dynamics-alphabet-google-robots-schaft/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/08/softbank-boston-dynamics... Cyberpunk speculating aside, I'm pretty sure Big Food companies (Coke, Monsonto, Kraft, etc) have private security contractors - due to the sheer amount of physical assets they control, it would be irresponsible to shareholders if they didn't.
- tomjakubowski 9y ago
  Coca Cola's bottling partner in Colombia was, quite famously, accused of using mercenaries to murder labor organizers in the early 00s. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/26/world/union-says-coca-cola-in-colombia-uses-thugs.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/26/world/union-says-coca-cola... Similar accusations were made against Coke's Guatemalan bottler a few years back. Of course, about a hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon for companies to use hired muscle to harass, beat, and even murder labor activists in the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre
throwaway613834 9y ago
> At some point, a company will have enough funds to purchase its own military I don't expect funding is the only big barrier between a company and its possession of a military force here.
- barkingcat 9y ago

lostlogin 9y ago

There have been plenty of examples of this and will continue to be. The most obvious recent example that I can think of would be Uber and the way they blocked regulators from seeing what was really happening.