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When people find out I design Smalltalk computers, they often say something like "oh! You probably don't know this, but in the 1980s some people tried to build

by jecel 9y ago

When people find out I design Smalltalk computers, they often say something like "oh! You probably don't know this, but in the 1980s some people tried to build a computer to run Lisp and it failed completely". My reply is that every computer except two (PC clones and the IBM 360) from back then failed completely. So it doesn't make sense to claim being language specific was the cause of its demise.

kazinator 9y ago
In the 1980's, people also tried to build video phones and failed. Let's not try today.
scroot 9y ago
Where can we get one?
- jecel 9y ago
  Do you mean where you can get a Smalltalk computer? I still haven't finished though I have been working on it for a long time. But I am getting pretty close so it should be possible to get one in a few months. Pictures of my previous efforts: http://www.smalltalk.org.br/fotos/ http://www.smalltalk.org.br/fotos/ (with 68000 and ARM processor) http://merlintec.com/swiki/hardware/28.html http://merlintec.com/swiki/hardware/28.html (with my own processor starting in 1999)
  - scroot 9y ago
    Yes, a Smalltalk computer. Very nice. Are you working with SiliconSqueak? I can never tell what the status of that project is. I would definitely pick one up / build one.
    - jecel 9y ago
      Yes, SiliconSqueak is what I have been working on since 2009. It is actually based on an idea I had in 2004 but I didn't work on because I couldn't get the Squeak community interested. The latest description is from early 2015 and is missing a lot of stuff: http://www.merlintec.com/download/jecel_phd_deposited.pdf http://www.merlintec.com/download/jecel_phd_deposited.pdf Currently I am replacing the ALU Matrix coprocessor described there with an alternative that is more generally useful. I will move the text somewhere public (github, for example) so people can always access the lasted version. Back to the original topic, it is interesting to discuss what good would a Lisp Machine (or Smalltalk computer) be in 2017? Would it run the language faster than a x86 processor? Lisp Machines tried to be the best possible interpreter, but we now have advanced adaptive compilation technology. A very parallel Lisp could be really fast in a dedicated architecture (see GPUs and similar) but most people are interested in normal, sequential Lisp. In that case it might still have a niche if it could perform as well (or nearly as well) but with far fewer transistors (lower power and lower cost). In short: a 2017 Lisp Machine should either go beyond the current Von Neumann model or it should do what you can do with Lisp on normal machines but cheaper and with less energy.

by jecel 9y ago

kazinator 9y ago

In the 1980's, people also tried to build video phones and failed. Let's not try today.

scroot 9y ago

Where can we get one?

jecel 9y ago
Do you mean where you can get a Smalltalk computer? I still haven't finished though I have been working on it for a long time. But I am getting pretty close so it should be possible to get one in a few months. Pictures of my previous efforts: http://www.smalltalk.org.br/fotos/ http://www.smalltalk.org.br/fotos/ (with 68000 and ARM processor) http://merlintec.com/swiki/hardware/28.html http://merlintec.com/swiki/hardware/28.html (with my own processor starting in 1999)
- scroot 9y ago
  Yes, a Smalltalk computer. Very nice. Are you working with SiliconSqueak? I can never tell what the status of that project is. I would definitely pick one up / build one.
  - jecel 9y ago
    Yes, SiliconSqueak is what I have been working on since 2009. It is actually based on an idea I had in 2004 but I didn't work on because I couldn't get the Squeak community interested. The latest description is from early 2015 and is missing a lot of stuff: http://www.merlintec.com/download/jecel_phd_deposited.pdf http://www.merlintec.com/download/jecel_phd_deposited.pdf Currently I am replacing the ALU Matrix coprocessor described there with an alternative that is more generally useful. I will move the text somewhere public (github, for example) so people can always access the lasted version. Back to the original topic, it is interesting to discuss what good would a Lisp Machine (or Smalltalk computer) be in 2017? Would it run the language faster than a x86 processor? Lisp Machines tried to be the best possible interpreter, but we now have advanced adaptive compilation technology. A very parallel Lisp could be really fast in a dedicated architecture (see GPUs and similar) but most people are interested in normal, sequential Lisp. In that case it might still have a niche if it could perform as well (or nearly as well) but with far fewer transistors (lower power and lower cost). In short: a 2017 Lisp Machine should either go beyond the current Von Neumann model or it should do what you can do with Lisp on normal machines but cheaper and with less energy.