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Edward Snowden: Zcash Is 'Most Interesting Bitcoin Alternative'

129 points by mbgaxyz 9y ago

thisisit 9y ago
In case people don't open the link or miss the disclosure: Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Zcash Company, the for-profit entity supporting zcash's development.
- colecut 9y ago
  but does Snowden have any stake?
  - tambienben 9y ago
    I'm suspicious of this.
    - tambienben 9y ago
      For those of you who are down voting, perhaps you could explain why this case might be different from any other value hype. What happened to trust no one--verify?
      - Fnoord 9y ago
        Its different because Snowden has credibility. He didn't receive any money for the movie Snowden (it was donated to The Guardian instead) [1]. He didn't sell any of the NSA data. He doesn't have a track record of profiting, apart from working (like we all do) and receiving some donations. So the claim that Snowden is a proponent of Zcash because he has invested in it has no merit. There is zero proof for such statement, and his track record doesn't suggest it either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_(film)
        tambienben 9y ago
        >So the claim that Snowden is a proponent of Zcash because he has invested in it has no merit. Maybe you're using hyperbole. The /suspicion/ at least, has plenty of merit. I agree that doing something like that would go against his track record, but believing a subjective statement on face value doesn't keep that track record intact (except in your own mind, maybe). I trust Snowden's opinion as much as anyone here, but you can't ignore basic precautions simply because someone is popular for "the right reasons". I very much think that Mr. Snowden would agree with my frame of mind on this. You may disagree.
        Fnoord 9y ago
        > The /suspicion/ at least, has plenty of merit. Merit? I've seen no merit whatsoever. A vague conspiracy theory, that's what I've seen. > I trust Snowden's opinion as much as anyone here, but you can't ignore basic precautions simply because someone is popular for "the right reasons". What you propose doesn't fall under basic precautions; it is a conspiracy theory. And one consisting of very little theory, I'm afraid. For the record your two quotes: "I'm suspicious of this." "For those of you who are down voting, perhaps you could explain why this case might be different from any other value hype. What happened to trust no one--verify?" You're trying to shift the blame. The burden of proof lies at you.
        tambienben 9y ago
        So you would trust anything he says on face value? Regardless of what he might stand to gain? My only point is that having a substantial amount of faith in anyone, when the stakes are high, is folly. That's the entire point of blockchain technology. I'm not openly accusing him of anything. Im only stating that, as for myself, I regard the statement (given its content) with a reasonable amount of suspicion. Again, you may disagree.
        spurcell93 9y ago
        I wonder if you're conflating skepticism with suspicion. I don't believe it's a meaningless distinction.
  - willitpamp573 9y ago
    We wouldn't know if he did
- animex 9y ago
  Such a weak reason to write up an article about ZCash that it comes off as shill. Debating Snowden's skillset or motivations is a waste of time. I think he was just referring to the concepts behind ZCash, not the technical implementation. And even if it was the latter, a 140 character tweet isn't the place to state the why/how of his methodology when arriving at such a statement.
DonbunEf7 9y ago
This article mentions Zcash, which means that folks will be showing up shortly to talk about Monero.
- hackerboos 9y ago
  Every crypto-currency has it's zealots but that's not to detract from what Snowden said about Monero, labelling it "amateur crypto". Ring signatures have been around longer than zk-snarks so time will tell on that comment. I do however believe Zcash could be doing a better job for privacy, notably by mandating private transactions once the new "JUBJUB"optimizations have been merged [0]. [0] - https://z.cash/blog/cultivating-sapling-faster-zksnarks.html https://z.cash/blog/cultivating-sapling-faster-zksnarks.html
  - tambienben 9y ago
    Any idea how well alternatives like zcoin might hold up over time?
    - hackerboos 9y ago
      I don't know much about Zcoin. Looks promising if the description is to be believed.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Self-fulfilling prophesy right there.
c3534l 9y ago
If all you have is a cryptocurrency, then I don't think you have anything that interesting. They've proven useful for buying drugs, but beyond that they've not created many new business opportunities. I don't have an exhaustive knowledge of cryptos, but Ethereum is extensible which is interesting. GNU came out with a crypto that they say is unsuited for illegal activities. Being even more secure than Bitcoin just makes you more appealing to an even smaller set of Bitcoin users.
- mrb 9y ago
  «beyond that they've not created many new business opportunities» What an understatement. As of 2 years ago, at least 729 Bitcoin businesses were created¹, received $1 billion in investments², and employed thousands of persons. ¹https://venturescannerinsights.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/the-state-of-bitcoin-in-six-visuals/ https://venturescannerinsights.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/the-... ²http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/02/technology/bitcoin-1-billion-invested/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/02/technology/bitcoin-1-billion...
  - c3534l 9y ago
    Investments are the opposite of what I'm talking about. Where are the returns? What are the new businesses? If you throw a million dollars into a hole, you can't say the useless hole industry is a million dollar idea. If you build a new railroad line, tell me what cities it connects, not how much people have spent building it. I'm well aware there's interest in bitcoin. But the only industry, besides itself, that it's revolutionized is drugs. And it doesn't offer a way to grow, there's no innovating on bitcoin. There's innovating on crypto, and because of that it's that innovation that has the potential to matter. Fine, it's private. Is that it? That's not enough.
    - mrb 9y ago
      Bitcoin revolutionizes payments. There is major growth happening because there is simply no other system that works as well as Bitcoin for fast international payments, as it works for all ("permissionless"), 24/7 (doesn't close on weekends and bank holidays), and quickly (10min block time). See for example the growth and use of Bitcoin witnessed by payment processor BitPay: https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/ https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/ It's hard to quantify exactly how much Bitcoin helps the economy on a global scale beyond these BitPay stats, because of the inherent decentralized nature of the tech. But we know it reduces payment friction, so it indirectly increases economic activity of its users.
Jordanpomeroy 9y ago
Why does anyone care what Snowden thinks about crypto currency? He was a SharePoint administrator. I don't understand why his opinion is relevant. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for his sacrifice, and I think he deserves to be pardoned.
- chisleu 9y ago
  He was a coder and a lot of other things too.
  - safisher 9y ago
    That changes everything.
    - chisleu 9y ago
      It changes that "he was a sharepoint admin". He was a lot more. He wrote the backup software that was used to distribute drone video/data feeds around the globe. He was a trained offensive security engineer. He wasn't just a sharepoint admin.
  - krapp 9y ago
    That describes me, probably you, and most other people here.
    - chisleu 9y ago
      Right, except he was also a trained offensive security engineer and wrote code still used extensively in the NSA/CIA operations. (EpicShelter) He wasn't just a sharepoint admin.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  Before he was known for the NSA leaks he was still a privacy activist who helped teach people about cryptography. It's not totally unrelated, especially since Zcash's selling point is that it offers more privacy than Bitcoin. https://www.forbes.com/sites/runasandvik/2014/05/27/that-one-time-i-threw-a-cryptoparty-with-edward-snowden/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/runasandvik/2014/05/27/that-one...
627467 9y ago
Am I spreading FUD or isn't it that zcash has had overt support/investment from US 3 lettered agencies?
- AlexCoventry 9y ago
  Unless you provide some kind of convincing citation, it's FUD as far as I'm concerned.
- uncletaco 9y ago
  I dunno but a running joke is the largest monero mining pool is the NSA probably.
lawn 9y ago
Labeling Monero as "amateur crypto" detracts from his credibility a lot. The crypto Monero uses is older and more tested than the new crypto in Zcash and the development in Monero seems very professional. It's not perfect of course but it's far from amateurish.
- kristianov 9y ago
  Don't buy Monero though.
  - jMyles 9y ago
    Why? (feel free to link me an informative discourse on the matter)
    - lawn 9y ago
      It's just a reference to the Monero devs saying "Don't buy Monero" as they don't want to make the financial recommendation to invest in a coin under very active development.
mtgx 9y ago
Not Monero, which already has a proven track record of being um...untrackable?
neuro_imager 9y ago
Just FYI for anyone not aware - Snowden dismissed Monero on the basis of a bug that was resolved several months ago.
- the_stc 9y ago
  Yet ignores the founders of zCash saying they can make a backdoor for police and make it too traceable for criminals. >Green says that he and his fellow researchers are not interested in facilitating criminal activity with Zerocoin. "Zerocoin would give you this incredible privacy guarantee, then we could add on some features which let the police, for instance, to be able to track money laundering. A back door." https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/03/bitcoin-zerocoin.html https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/03/bitcoi... That alone scares me off of it, and why we're suggesting people use Monero to invest with us. I know that was a while ago, and zerocoin isn't zCash but combined with Zooko's tweets about making zCash too traceable for criminals, no thanks. The crypto is too new, so who knows how they could go about hiding a backdoor. It's so odd anyone would ever work with these guys given their attitude and statements.
  - geofft 9y ago
    That's a very weird statement, and I wish there were some more context behind it in the article - is this a cryptographic or protocol-level back door, or is this just the idea that you can start with an anonymous system and add tracing (but you can't start with a visible system and add anonymity)? It could be either, and I'm not sure how to read it.
    - ewillbefull 9y ago
      Zooko explained afterward: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680 https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680
      - the_stc 9y ago
        That's not an explanation. It's just an assertion they'd not do bad stuff, ignoring what he previously tweeted. Neither is his stuff about it being compatible with law enforcement. A real explanation would follow through the thought and say exactly how they can make zCash "too traceable for criminals". Especially when Green has his own quote saying they're OK building backdoors for police. Or maybe that is their entire plan. Say something slightly sketchy, knowing any real criminal will be too paranoid to trust it. Worked for me.
Feniks 9y ago
Its curious to see, I travel around a bit and I'm always astounded how many countries still use cash and have backwards banking infrastructure. You'd think transferring money from one account to another should be near instantaneous and require no third party. If bitcoins can shake the rest of the world into the modern age I'm all for it.
- jedbrown 9y ago
  > backwards banking infrastructure You're describing the United States, right?
summer_steven 9y ago
I thought Zcash was only for Israelis?
brentis 9y ago
Love the assertion of critical thinking taking place. Nets out to be petty banter. I think at any given time Snowden doesn't have a lot of liquid assets to do a Jamie Dimon and swing the markets on a trade. Hence I think his intentions are sound coupled with his known scruples. Monero was found traceable recently. Period. Fixed or not doesn't matter, to him it's a risk for a) being tracable b) having bugs. Lastly, it's a tweet from one person getting wrapped around the axel overthinking it. Next.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- tX84 9y ago
  > Fixed or not doesn't matter, to him it's a risk for a) being tracable b) having bugs. So Zcash should be a risk to him then: a) Zooko's tweet about making it traceable. b) Zcash's bugs: .i) Right after launch, they discovered private transactions couldn't be mined - https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/zcash-bug-prevents-private-transactions-soon-after-launch/ https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/zcash-bug-prevents-private-t... .ii) Security vulnerabilities, bugs, attack vectors, etc - https://z.cash/tag/bugs.html https://z.cash/tag/bugs.html
vt_mruhlin 9y ago
I heard about these guys on NPR's Radiolab podcast a couple months ago, and the whole thing gave me a creepy feeling. http://www.radiolab.org/story/ceremony/ http://www.radiolab.org/story/ceremony/ They describe the whole ceremony the guys go through to generate the random secret key that seeds their algorithm and needs to be kept secret in order to prevent anybody from counterfeiting coins. It was an elaborate setup supposedly designed to prevent people from observing any details they might be able to use to reverse engineer the algorithm. But, despite all their insistance on bespoke cloak and dagger shit, there were a lot of times the process could have been broken: - They're supposed to be driving to a randomly selected electronics store to buy the laptop that will generate the number; but the guy makes an "unscheduled" stop at a costume store so he can buy a wizard hat (and potentially hand off information with a third party who wants to know their destination, or to pick up some kind of surveillance device) - When the time comes to type random numbers on the laptop keyboard, the guy covers his hands and the keyboard. Arguable pro there is that nobody can see which keys he touches, but the big obvious con is that he can slip that USB device he picked up at the costume shop into one of the USB ports. - People are using their phones while this whole process is going on? Ok, seems counterproductive to all that paranoid security they were trying to have... - Oh look, they noticed strange indicators that strongly suggested somebody's phone got hacked and was being used to spy on their skype conversation? Somebody that paranoid should have immediately shut the process down and restarted it at a later date. They didn't do that? Something sure is fishy with the guy running this thing. tl;dr; I don't trust 'em
- AgentME 9y ago
  Here's Peter Todd's writeup of his part in the setup ceremony: https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trusted-setup-ceremony https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trust... . For what it's worth, he was completely physically separate from anyone else in the ceremony, and no such shenanigans are described in his part of it. As long as any one of the 9 did their part correctly, then it's good. His writeup is not without criticism of the Zcash system though.
  - honestlyreally 9y ago

129 points by mbgaxyz 9y ago

In case people don't open the link or miss the disclosure: Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Zcash Company, the for-profit entity supporting zcash's development.

colecut 9y ago
but does Snowden have any stake?
- tambienben 9y ago
  I'm suspicious of this.
  - tambienben 9y ago
    For those of you who are down voting, perhaps you could explain why this case might be different from any other value hype. What happened to trust no one--verify?
    - Fnoord 9y ago
      Its different because Snowden has credibility. He didn't receive any money for the movie Snowden (it was donated to The Guardian instead) [1]. He didn't sell any of the NSA data. He doesn't have a track record of profiting, apart from working (like we all do) and receiving some donations. So the claim that Snowden is a proponent of Zcash because he has invested in it has no merit. There is zero proof for such statement, and his track record doesn't suggest it either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_(film)
      - tambienben 9y ago
        >So the claim that Snowden is a proponent of Zcash because he has invested in it has no merit. Maybe you're using hyperbole. The /suspicion/ at least, has plenty of merit. I agree that doing something like that would go against his track record, but believing a subjective statement on face value doesn't keep that track record intact (except in your own mind, maybe). I trust Snowden's opinion as much as anyone here, but you can't ignore basic precautions simply because someone is popular for "the right reasons". I very much think that Mr. Snowden would agree with my frame of mind on this. You may disagree.
        Fnoord 9y ago
        > The /suspicion/ at least, has plenty of merit. Merit? I've seen no merit whatsoever. A vague conspiracy theory, that's what I've seen. > I trust Snowden's opinion as much as anyone here, but you can't ignore basic precautions simply because someone is popular for "the right reasons". What you propose doesn't fall under basic precautions; it is a conspiracy theory. And one consisting of very little theory, I'm afraid. For the record your two quotes: "I'm suspicious of this." "For those of you who are down voting, perhaps you could explain why this case might be different from any other value hype. What happened to trust no one--verify?" You're trying to shift the blame. The burden of proof lies at you.
        tambienben 9y ago
        So you would trust anything he says on face value? Regardless of what he might stand to gain? My only point is that having a substantial amount of faith in anyone, when the stakes are high, is folly. That's the entire point of blockchain technology. I'm not openly accusing him of anything. Im only stating that, as for myself, I regard the statement (given its content) with a reasonable amount of suspicion. Again, you may disagree.
        spurcell93 9y ago
        I wonder if you're conflating skepticism with suspicion. I don't believe it's a meaningless distinction.
- willitpamp573 9y ago
  We wouldn't know if he did
animex 9y ago
Such a weak reason to write up an article about ZCash that it comes off as shill. Debating Snowden's skillset or motivations is a waste of time. I think he was just referring to the concepts behind ZCash, not the technical implementation. And even if it was the latter, a 140 character tweet isn't the place to state the why/how of his methodology when arriving at such a statement.

DonbunEf7 9y ago

This article mentions Zcash, which means that folks will be showing up shortly to talk about Monero.

hackerboos 9y ago
Every crypto-currency has it's zealots but that's not to detract from what Snowden said about Monero, labelling it "amateur crypto". Ring signatures have been around longer than zk-snarks so time will tell on that comment. I do however believe Zcash could be doing a better job for privacy, notably by mandating private transactions once the new "JUBJUB"optimizations have been merged [0]. [0] - https://z.cash/blog/cultivating-sapling-faster-zksnarks.html https://z.cash/blog/cultivating-sapling-faster-zksnarks.html
- tambienben 9y ago
  Any idea how well alternatives like zcoin might hold up over time?
  - hackerboos 9y ago
    I don't know much about Zcoin. Looks promising if the description is to be believed.
mikeash 9y ago
Self-fulfilling prophesy right there.

c3534l 9y ago

If all you have is a cryptocurrency, then I don't think you have anything that interesting. They've proven useful for buying drugs, but beyond that they've not created many new business opportunities. I don't have an exhaustive knowledge of cryptos, but Ethereum is extensible which is interesting. GNU came out with a crypto that they say is unsuited for illegal activities. Being even more secure than Bitcoin just makes you more appealing to an even smaller set of Bitcoin users.

mrb 9y ago
«beyond that they've not created many new business opportunities» What an understatement. As of 2 years ago, at least 729 Bitcoin businesses were created¹, received $1 billion in investments², and employed thousands of persons. ¹https://venturescannerinsights.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/the-state-of-bitcoin-in-six-visuals/ https://venturescannerinsights.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/the-... ²http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/02/technology/bitcoin-1-billion-invested/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/02/technology/bitcoin-1-billion...
- c3534l 9y ago
  Investments are the opposite of what I'm talking about. Where are the returns? What are the new businesses? If you throw a million dollars into a hole, you can't say the useless hole industry is a million dollar idea. If you build a new railroad line, tell me what cities it connects, not how much people have spent building it. I'm well aware there's interest in bitcoin. But the only industry, besides itself, that it's revolutionized is drugs. And it doesn't offer a way to grow, there's no innovating on bitcoin. There's innovating on crypto, and because of that it's that innovation that has the potential to matter. Fine, it's private. Is that it? That's not enough.
  - mrb 9y ago
    Bitcoin revolutionizes payments. There is major growth happening because there is simply no other system that works as well as Bitcoin for fast international payments, as it works for all ("permissionless"), 24/7 (doesn't close on weekends and bank holidays), and quickly (10min block time). See for example the growth and use of Bitcoin witnessed by payment processor BitPay: https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/ https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/ It's hard to quantify exactly how much Bitcoin helps the economy on a global scale beyond these BitPay stats, because of the inherent decentralized nature of the tech. But we know it reduces payment friction, so it indirectly increases economic activity of its users.

Jordanpomeroy 9y ago

Why does anyone care what Snowden thinks about crypto currency? He was a SharePoint administrator. I don't understand why his opinion is relevant. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for his sacrifice, and I think he deserves to be pardoned.

chisleu 9y ago
He was a coder and a lot of other things too.
- safisher 9y ago
  That changes everything.
  - chisleu 9y ago
    It changes that "he was a sharepoint admin". He was a lot more. He wrote the backup software that was used to distribute drone video/data feeds around the globe. He was a trained offensive security engineer. He wasn't just a sharepoint admin.
- krapp 9y ago
  That describes me, probably you, and most other people here.
  - chisleu 9y ago
    Right, except he was also a trained offensive security engineer and wrote code still used extensively in the NSA/CIA operations. (EpicShelter) He wasn't just a sharepoint admin.
wlesieutre 9y ago
Before he was known for the NSA leaks he was still a privacy activist who helped teach people about cryptography. It's not totally unrelated, especially since Zcash's selling point is that it offers more privacy than Bitcoin. https://www.forbes.com/sites/runasandvik/2014/05/27/that-one-time-i-threw-a-cryptoparty-with-edward-snowden/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/runasandvik/2014/05/27/that-one...

627467 9y ago

Am I spreading FUD or isn't it that zcash has had overt support/investment from US 3 lettered agencies?

AlexCoventry 9y ago
Unless you provide some kind of convincing citation, it's FUD as far as I'm concerned.
uncletaco 9y ago
I dunno but a running joke is the largest monero mining pool is the NSA probably.

lawn 9y ago

Labeling Monero as "amateur crypto" detracts from his credibility a lot. The crypto Monero uses is older and more tested than the new crypto in Zcash and the development in Monero seems very professional. It's not perfect of course but it's far from amateurish.

kristianov 9y ago
Don't buy Monero though.
- jMyles 9y ago
  Why? (feel free to link me an informative discourse on the matter)
  - lawn 9y ago
    It's just a reference to the Monero devs saying "Don't buy Monero" as they don't want to make the financial recommendation to invest in a coin under very active development.

mtgx 9y ago

Not Monero, which already has a proven track record of being um...untrackable?

neuro_imager 9y ago

Just FYI for anyone not aware - Snowden dismissed Monero on the basis of a bug that was resolved several months ago.

the_stc 9y ago
Yet ignores the founders of zCash saying they can make a backdoor for police and make it too traceable for criminals. >Green says that he and his fellow researchers are not interested in facilitating criminal activity with Zerocoin. "Zerocoin would give you this incredible privacy guarantee, then we could add on some features which let the police, for instance, to be able to track money laundering. A back door." https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/03/bitcoin-zerocoin.html https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/03/bitcoi... That alone scares me off of it, and why we're suggesting people use Monero to invest with us. I know that was a while ago, and zerocoin isn't zCash but combined with Zooko's tweets about making zCash too traceable for criminals, no thanks. The crypto is too new, so who knows how they could go about hiding a backdoor. It's so odd anyone would ever work with these guys given their attitude and statements.
- geofft 9y ago
  That's a very weird statement, and I wish there were some more context behind it in the article - is this a cryptographic or protocol-level back door, or is this just the idea that you can start with an anonymous system and add tracing (but you can't start with a visible system and add anonymity)? It could be either, and I'm not sure how to read it.
  - ewillbefull 9y ago
    Zooko explained afterward: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680 https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680
    - the_stc 9y ago
      That's not an explanation. It's just an assertion they'd not do bad stuff, ignoring what he previously tweeted. Neither is his stuff about it being compatible with law enforcement. A real explanation would follow through the thought and say exactly how they can make zCash "too traceable for criminals". Especially when Green has his own quote saying they're OK building backdoors for police. Or maybe that is their entire plan. Say something slightly sketchy, knowing any real criminal will be too paranoid to trust it. Worked for me.

Feniks 9y ago

Its curious to see, I travel around a bit and I'm always astounded how many countries still use cash and have backwards banking infrastructure. You'd think transferring money from one account to another should be near instantaneous and require no third party. If bitcoins can shake the rest of the world into the modern age I'm all for it.

jedbrown 9y ago
> backwards banking infrastructure You're describing the United States, right?

summer_steven 9y ago

I thought Zcash was only for Israelis?

brentis 9y ago

Love the assertion of critical thinking taking place. Nets out to be petty banter. I think at any given time Snowden doesn't have a lot of liquid assets to do a Jamie Dimon and swing the markets on a trade. Hence I think his intentions are sound coupled with his known scruples. Monero was found traceable recently. Period. Fixed or not doesn't matter, to him it's a risk for a) being tracable b) having bugs. Lastly, it's a tweet from one person getting wrapped around the axel overthinking it. Next.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tX84 9y ago
> Fixed or not doesn't matter, to him it's a risk for a) being tracable b) having bugs. So Zcash should be a risk to him then: a) Zooko's tweet about making it traceable. b) Zcash's bugs: .i) Right after launch, they discovered private transactions couldn't be mined - https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/zcash-bug-prevents-private-transactions-soon-after-launch/ https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/zcash-bug-prevents-private-t... .ii) Security vulnerabilities, bugs, attack vectors, etc - https://z.cash/tag/bugs.html https://z.cash/tag/bugs.html

vt_mruhlin 9y ago

I heard about these guys on NPR's Radiolab podcast a couple months ago, and the whole thing gave me a creepy feeling. http://www.radiolab.org/story/ceremony/ http://www.radiolab.org/story/ceremony/ They describe the whole ceremony the guys go through to generate the random secret key that seeds their algorithm and needs to be kept secret in order to prevent anybody from counterfeiting coins. It was an elaborate setup supposedly designed to prevent people from observing any details they might be able to use to reverse engineer the algorithm. But, despite all their insistance on bespoke cloak and dagger shit, there were a lot of times the process could have been broken: - They're supposed to be driving to a randomly selected electronics store to buy the laptop that will generate the number; but the guy makes an "unscheduled" stop at a costume store so he can buy a wizard hat (and potentially hand off information with a third party who wants to know their destination, or to pick up some kind of surveillance device) - When the time comes to type random numbers on the laptop keyboard, the guy covers his hands and the keyboard. Arguable pro there is that nobody can see which keys he touches, but the big obvious con is that he can slip that USB device he picked up at the costume shop into one of the USB ports. - People are using their phones while this whole process is going on? Ok, seems counterproductive to all that paranoid security they were trying to have... - Oh look, they noticed strange indicators that strongly suggested somebody's phone got hacked and was being used to spy on their skype conversation? Somebody that paranoid should have immediately shut the process down and restarted it at a later date. They didn't do that? Something sure is fishy with the guy running this thing. tl;dr; I don't trust 'em

AgentME 9y ago
Here's Peter Todd's writeup of his part in the setup ceremony: https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trusted-setup-ceremony https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trust... . For what it's worth, he was completely physically separate from anyone else in the ceremony, and no such shenanigans are described in his part of it. As long as any one of the 9 did their part correctly, then it's good. His writeup is not without criticism of the Zcash system though.
- honestlyreally 9y ago