4 ms·

And yet those Cuban doctors would give up their entire way of life, access to family members and the country they grew up in to move to the evil capitalist Unit

by influx 9y ago

And yet those Cuban doctors would give up their entire way of life, access to family members and the country they grew up in to move to the evil capitalist United States. Weird.

gozur88 9y ago
While I'm no fan of Cuba, I have to point out doctors come to the US from a lot of different countries because they'll get paid more. That's just human nature.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
Weird how they do it after they became doctors and not before.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  Lots of people leave Cuba for America without becoming doctors first.
- ars 9y ago
  Tons of Cubans do if before as well. Have you never heard of wet-foot dry-foot?
- dpraburaj 9y ago
  It's actually weird how many people in capitalist countries look at failed/failing communist states and think of them as utopias, all the while ignoring the plight of millions living there in poverty and with no clear path to a better standard of life. They should put their money where their mouth is and spend at least a few decades in such countries before criticising others who've made a choice to leave(for various reasons).
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    How much of that is America's doing? If the embargo were lifted, do you still think Communist Cuba would be failing? Its poverty is a result of America's intolerance for different political systems, not the result of those political systems themselves.
    - thwarted 9y ago
      The communist Utopia requires trade with another entity in order to maintain its Utopia? Who manages the trade between the countries? Are the members of a society that claims to be Communist actually so if that society at large is part of a free-market? This sounds like not getting rid of exploitation, but rather sweeping it under the rug and outsourcing it to a free-market entity.
      - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
        >The communist Utopia requires trade with another entity in order to maintain its Utopia? Presumably all states do. >Who manages the trade between the countries? Communism is about owning the means of production so presumably the people will act through their government to decide on trade. >Are the members of a society that claims to be Communist actually so if that society at large is part of a free-market? Presumably, unless you mean to say that no actually Communist state has ever existed! (I'll accept this of course, I'd just like you to say it.) If you'd like to know more about this conflict I'd pull up the wiki article for "socialism in one country." >This sounds like not getting rid of exploitation, but rather sweeping it under the rug and outsourcing it to a free-market entity. Well the end-goal would be world communism without government, democratic everything, "from those... to those..." kind of world. In the interim trade would be necessary and you're right that unfortunately that trade may come from exploitation of the working class in another country. But if we can take our country, go socialist, reduce exploitation then that's still an admirable goal. Hopefully, those elsewhere will see and follow. I wouldn't call it "outsourcing exploitation" because presumably the trade level wouldn't increase dramatically after becoming communist. It's more like fixing our exploitation while admitting we may not be able to end all exploitation. NOTE: I'm not actually a communist and I only know a little so these are the best answers I can give. A real communist would probably school me on this.
    - BadassFractal 9y ago
      So, communism is great, it's just didn't work that one time because of the US?
      - 9y ago
  - clavalle 9y ago
    I am solidly liberal and Left-leaning and most of my friends are extremely liberal and Left-Leaning, too (though, admittedly not extreme left). I don't know a single person who sees any communist state as a utopia or anything approaching utopia. Hell, I don't know anyone who likes communism as a concept any more than a they'd like a state of anarchist primitivism -- basically a quaint idea that might be nice if humans weren't actually human that's interesting to muse about from time to time. Honestly, I think it is a character made up of very few extreme examples that make a spectacle of themselves on social media trotted out by Right-wing pundits and people who don't actually like to think about reality too hard.
  - Arcaten 9y ago
    So you look at the millions of poor people in the United States and think, "Yes, these people have a clear path to a better standard of living"? Do you know how many children are living on the streets in Havana? Or how many die of starvation or exposure? Maybe they're poor, but they are alive, healthy, fed, and have a roof over their heads. That's a lot more than Americans can say about the at risk in their own country. I am by no means suggesting that Cuba is a utopia -- my own standard of living is probably quite a lot higher than the average Cuban's. I'm lucky in that way. That's not the case for many, many others.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  How many people coming over on makeshift boats do you suppose are doctors?
emodendroket 9y ago
Yeah no kidding, because they have already acquired skills that will allow them a comfortable lifestyle in the US and don't have to deal with any of the downsides.
- notyourday 9y ago
  Unlikely. Medical degrees from Cuba aren't portable what so ever. Cuban doctors are nowhere close to what Americans expect -- don't get me wrong, they are perfectly fine performing basic medical services but don't expect them to know how to use any modern equipment or be familiar with modern protocols used in the West. What is it far more likely is that those who actually live the glorious communist future would make an educated choice that being a janitor in America is preferable.
  - stretchwithme 9y ago
    'If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce.' 'In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market. A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.”' http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-health-care http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-heal...
    - throwawayknecht 9y ago
      The causality is not obvious. For example, throughout the 70s and 80s, organizations shipping medicine and other supplies to Cuba were regularly bombed or attacked (e.g. Hispania Interamericana). Anti-Castro terrorist organizations (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_66 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_66) operated openly in Miami. So does Cuba lack medicine because they're communist? Or are they communist because the US worked against broad prosperity in Cuba, often very violently and explicitly, for decades before and after Castro?

by influx 9y ago

And yet those Cuban doctors would give up their entire way of life, access to family members and the country they grew up in to move to the evil capitalist United States. Weird.

gozur88 9y ago

While I'm no fan of Cuba, I have to point out doctors come to the US from a lot of different countries because they'll get paid more. That's just human nature.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

Weird how they do it after they became doctors and not before.

daveFNbuck 9y ago
Lots of people leave Cuba for America without becoming doctors first.
ars 9y ago
Tons of Cubans do if before as well. Have you never heard of wet-foot dry-foot?
dpraburaj 9y ago
It's actually weird how many people in capitalist countries look at failed/failing communist states and think of them as utopias, all the while ignoring the plight of millions living there in poverty and with no clear path to a better standard of life. They should put their money where their mouth is and spend at least a few decades in such countries before criticising others who've made a choice to leave(for various reasons).
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  How much of that is America's doing? If the embargo were lifted, do you still think Communist Cuba would be failing? Its poverty is a result of America's intolerance for different political systems, not the result of those political systems themselves.
  - thwarted 9y ago
    The communist Utopia requires trade with another entity in order to maintain its Utopia? Who manages the trade between the countries? Are the members of a society that claims to be Communist actually so if that society at large is part of a free-market? This sounds like not getting rid of exploitation, but rather sweeping it under the rug and outsourcing it to a free-market entity.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
      >The communist Utopia requires trade with another entity in order to maintain its Utopia? Presumably all states do. >Who manages the trade between the countries? Communism is about owning the means of production so presumably the people will act through their government to decide on trade. >Are the members of a society that claims to be Communist actually so if that society at large is part of a free-market? Presumably, unless you mean to say that no actually Communist state has ever existed! (I'll accept this of course, I'd just like you to say it.) If you'd like to know more about this conflict I'd pull up the wiki article for "socialism in one country." >This sounds like not getting rid of exploitation, but rather sweeping it under the rug and outsourcing it to a free-market entity. Well the end-goal would be world communism without government, democratic everything, "from those... to those..." kind of world. In the interim trade would be necessary and you're right that unfortunately that trade may come from exploitation of the working class in another country. But if we can take our country, go socialist, reduce exploitation then that's still an admirable goal. Hopefully, those elsewhere will see and follow. I wouldn't call it "outsourcing exploitation" because presumably the trade level wouldn't increase dramatically after becoming communist. It's more like fixing our exploitation while admitting we may not be able to end all exploitation. NOTE: I'm not actually a communist and I only know a little so these are the best answers I can give. A real communist would probably school me on this.
  - BadassFractal 9y ago
    So, communism is great, it's just didn't work that one time because of the US?
    - 9y ago
- clavalle 9y ago
  I am solidly liberal and Left-leaning and most of my friends are extremely liberal and Left-Leaning, too (though, admittedly not extreme left). I don't know a single person who sees any communist state as a utopia or anything approaching utopia. Hell, I don't know anyone who likes communism as a concept any more than a they'd like a state of anarchist primitivism -- basically a quaint idea that might be nice if humans weren't actually human that's interesting to muse about from time to time. Honestly, I think it is a character made up of very few extreme examples that make a spectacle of themselves on social media trotted out by Right-wing pundits and people who don't actually like to think about reality too hard.
- Arcaten 9y ago
  So you look at the millions of poor people in the United States and think, "Yes, these people have a clear path to a better standard of living"? Do you know how many children are living on the streets in Havana? Or how many die of starvation or exposure? Maybe they're poor, but they are alive, healthy, fed, and have a roof over their heads. That's a lot more than Americans can say about the at risk in their own country. I am by no means suggesting that Cuba is a utopia -- my own standard of living is probably quite a lot higher than the average Cuban's. I'm lucky in that way. That's not the case for many, many others.
oh_sigh 9y ago
How many people coming over on makeshift boats do you suppose are doctors?

emodendroket 9y ago

Yeah no kidding, because they have already acquired skills that will allow them a comfortable lifestyle in the US and don't have to deal with any of the downsides.

notyourday 9y ago
Unlikely. Medical degrees from Cuba aren't portable what so ever. Cuban doctors are nowhere close to what Americans expect -- don't get me wrong, they are perfectly fine performing basic medical services but don't expect them to know how to use any modern equipment or be familiar with modern protocols used in the West. What is it far more likely is that those who actually live the glorious communist future would make an educated choice that being a janitor in America is preferable.
- stretchwithme 9y ago
  'If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce.' 'In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market. A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.”' http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-health-care http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-heal...
  - throwawayknecht 9y ago
    The causality is not obvious. For example, throughout the 70s and 80s, organizations shipping medicine and other supplies to Cuba were regularly bombed or attacked (e.g. Hispania Interamericana). Anti-Castro terrorist organizations (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_66 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_66) operated openly in Miami. So does Cuba lack medicine because they're communist? Or are they communist because the US worked against broad prosperity in Cuba, often very violently and explicitly, for decades before and after Castro?