4 ms·

Are you serious? Let me ask you how many of immigrants are grad students or prople with high tech jobs? Is it one of the stupidest thing to say drop in IQ is

by 0xFFC 9y ago

Are you serious? Let me ask you how many of immigrants are grad students or prople with high tech jobs? Is it one of the stupidest thing to say drop in IQ is connected to immigrants! It is greatly disappointing to see this kind of nonsense in HN which is kind of home for many hackers and programmers. Hearing these kind of stupid ideas in C-Span? Who cares? But HN, that shows how low our societies has become.

swsieber 9y ago
What percentage of immigrants are grad students or people with high tech jobs. I don't know, and I'm genuinely curious.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jchb 9y ago
  There are statistics on education level. For example "Share of the population aged 25-64, by educational attainment level, by place of birth and by sex, EU-28, 2016". http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Share_of_the_population_aged_25-64,_by_educational_attainment_level,_by_place_of_birth_and_by_sex,_EU-28,_2016_(%25)_MI17.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/.... Now let's say that you make it difficult (either deliberately or due to language barriers) for individuals in the left-most part of that graph to stay. What happens long term? I don't know.
hegojuko 9y ago
The millions of economic and war displaced immigrants flooding into Europe are largely and emphatically not grad student with high tech jobs. That's just reality.
lol2143651 9y ago
What portion of grad students and high tech jobs are Mexican immigrants? Very few. Conflating immigration from high IQ populations like China, Korea, and Brahmin India with South American immigration is just ridiculous.
coldtea 9y ago
>Let me ask you how many of immigrants are grad students or people with high tech jobs? Depends on the country of entry and the country of origin. The majority of latin America immigrants in the US, or African immigrants in France for example will be nothing like "grad students" and "high tech jobs". >Is it one of the stupidest thing to say drop in IQ is connected to immigrants! It's actually a pretty decent explanation. If different countries have different average IQs (which we know to be correct) and if the mass immigration is not of the "grad student" type (which we also know to be correct), then it's a good explanation, assuming there's no other factor that we neglected to examine. Remains to be seen if this is indeed the case or if there's another cause (or perhaps multiple causes). >It is greatly disappointing to see this kind of nonsense in HN which is kind of home for many hackers and programmers. Hearing these kind of stupid ideas in C-Span? Who cares? But HN, that shows how low our societies has become. You are ranting. This is not a reasoned argument against the parent's argument. This is what's anti-hacker and anti-science.
- 0xFFC 9y ago
  >This is not a reasoned argument against the parent's argument. FYI the parent comment was not reasoned argument either. The notion of relation between education and IQ is questionable. >It's actually a pretty decent explanation. No it is not at all. Since it requires rigorous calculation and estimation of how much immigrants have come, what is their average IQ, how much drop we see in population and so many questions. This is what “pointing finger without any evidence” looks like. I don’t understand why you would consider your approach scientific when I am the one basically asking and questioning all the moving parts.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >FYI the parent comment was not reasoned argument either. The notion of relation between education and IQ is questionable. Questionable based on ethical considerations is not the same as non-rational. It's a very logical thing to consider. A mechanism for example would be that people with higher IQ also tend to succeed in completing more higher education degrees. The inverse is also possible, and it's also a perfectly valid thing to suggest and study. In fact it's studied e.g. in this paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/2/425.full.pdf http://www.pnas.org/content/109/2/425.full.pdf >No it is not at all. Since it requires rigorous calculation and estimation of how much immigrants have come, what is their average IQ, how much drop we see in population and so many questions. That's what's required to get a full result. It's not however required for merely putting forward the argument as a possible explanation, or for judging whether the argument is rational or not. It seems that your concerns are more tied to a priori axioms and emotional resistance than actual methodological issues in the questions.
LARGEGALAXY 9y ago
It is a very sound hypothesis. Take a look at this: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country If we are speaking of the U.S.A (and Germany, Sweden, France) then most immigrants are people coming from locations far from the top of the list; therefore, if these immigrants (their kids too, IQ is a heritable trait) are partaking in such tests, the average will decrease, do you not believe so yourself? Perhaps you can pinpoint the flaw in this hypothesis.

by 0xFFC 9y ago

swsieber 9y ago

What percentage of immigrants are grad students or people with high tech jobs. I don't know, and I'm genuinely curious.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jchb 9y ago
There are statistics on education level. For example "Share of the population aged 25-64, by educational attainment level, by place of birth and by sex, EU-28, 2016". http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Share_of_the_population_aged_25-64,_by_educational_attainment_level,_by_place_of_birth_and_by_sex,_EU-28,_2016_(%25)_MI17.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/.... Now let's say that you make it difficult (either deliberately or due to language barriers) for individuals in the left-most part of that graph to stay. What happens long term? I don't know.

hegojuko 9y ago

The millions of economic and war displaced immigrants flooding into Europe are largely and emphatically not grad student with high tech jobs. That's just reality.

lol2143651 9y ago

What portion of grad students and high tech jobs are Mexican immigrants? Very few. Conflating immigration from high IQ populations like China, Korea, and Brahmin India with South American immigration is just ridiculous.

coldtea 9y ago

>Let me ask you how many of immigrants are grad students or people with high tech jobs? Depends on the country of entry and the country of origin. The majority of latin America immigrants in the US, or African immigrants in France for example will be nothing like "grad students" and "high tech jobs". >Is it one of the stupidest thing to say drop in IQ is connected to immigrants! It's actually a pretty decent explanation. If different countries have different average IQs (which we know to be correct) and if the mass immigration is not of the "grad student" type (which we also know to be correct), then it's a good explanation, assuming there's no other factor that we neglected to examine. Remains to be seen if this is indeed the case or if there's another cause (or perhaps multiple causes). >It is greatly disappointing to see this kind of nonsense in HN which is kind of home for many hackers and programmers. Hearing these kind of stupid ideas in C-Span? Who cares? But HN, that shows how low our societies has become. You are ranting. This is not a reasoned argument against the parent's argument. This is what's anti-hacker and anti-science.

0xFFC 9y ago
>This is not a reasoned argument against the parent's argument. FYI the parent comment was not reasoned argument either. The notion of relation between education and IQ is questionable. >It's actually a pretty decent explanation. No it is not at all. Since it requires rigorous calculation and estimation of how much immigrants have come, what is their average IQ, how much drop we see in population and so many questions. This is what “pointing finger without any evidence” looks like. I don’t understand why you would consider your approach scientific when I am the one basically asking and questioning all the moving parts.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >FYI the parent comment was not reasoned argument either. The notion of relation between education and IQ is questionable. Questionable based on ethical considerations is not the same as non-rational. It's a very logical thing to consider. A mechanism for example would be that people with higher IQ also tend to succeed in completing more higher education degrees. The inverse is also possible, and it's also a perfectly valid thing to suggest and study. In fact it's studied e.g. in this paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/2/425.full.pdf http://www.pnas.org/content/109/2/425.full.pdf >No it is not at all. Since it requires rigorous calculation and estimation of how much immigrants have come, what is their average IQ, how much drop we see in population and so many questions. That's what's required to get a full result. It's not however required for merely putting forward the argument as a possible explanation, or for judging whether the argument is rational or not. It seems that your concerns are more tied to a priori axioms and emotional resistance than actual methodological issues in the questions.

LARGEGALAXY 9y ago

It is a very sound hypothesis. Take a look at this: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country If we are speaking of the U.S.A (and Germany, Sweden, France) then most immigrants are people coming from locations far from the top of the list; therefore, if these immigrants (their kids too, IQ is a heritable trait) are partaking in such tests, the average will decrease, do you not believe so yourself? Perhaps you can pinpoint the flaw in this hypothesis.