4 ms·

Actually its default keys are available in lots of other places. Most notably anything that uses readline (like bash), but I've even found the keys work in unex

Actually its default keys are available in lots of other places. Most notably anything that uses readline (like bash), but I've even found the keys work in unexpected places like the MATLAB editor. Plus the letter keys and arrow keys already do what you expect. What "expected behaviour" are you referring to?

sspiff 9y ago
Granted, but bash and other readline applications generally have a very different mode of operation compared to a text editor. They operate on single lines of input at a time (most of the time). Editors like emacs operate on a multi-line body of text, and most people expect those to work like the other text fields in their environment (Ctrl-C/X/V for copy/cut/past, Ctrl-A for select all, shift-home/end/arrows to select text etc.) I know you can activate those keybinding in Emacs, but then none of the documentation you find about keyboard shortcuts will apply to you. The fact that many places support emacs keybindings (like MATLAB or IntelliJ) are an indication of how many programmers are used to those keybindings, but beginning or aspiring users most certainly are not. Don't get me wrong. I love Emacs. I use Emacs everywhere, and for everything. But I know that the default behaviour and keybindings were a hurdle to overcome when I first got to know Emacs, and it took me time and effort to get comfortable within the editor.
- vetinari 9y ago
  Cocoa widgets for text entry in macOS support Emacs keybindings by default. Yes, TextEdit too. You cannot get nearer to beginning users than that. But yes, it takes a time to get used to. But that's matter of familiarity.
  - sspiff 9y ago
    But only Emacs users use those keybindings with those widgets, so that's not a good argument to say "emacs keybindings are well known by novice users".
- cben 9y ago
  Emacs cua-mode is not bad. It does create some confusion with C-x shortcuts, eg. C-x C-s when typed too slowly will cut selected text and enter search, instead of saving :-( But I'd love a more total conversion to CUA... E.g. I have C-o to open files, and C-w to close buffer/window. https://gist.github.com/cben/ada7675ab9aa14000a1a50eae3986117 https://gist.github.com/cben/ada7675ab9aa14000a1a50eae398611... -- emacs user for >15yr, tired of motor context switching. (Terminal Ctrl+Shift+X/C/V vs it opening devtools in Chrome is bad enough...)
dgsb 9y ago
On my computers anything that uses readline behaves like vi.

sspiff 9y ago

Granted, but bash and other readline applications generally have a very different mode of operation compared to a text editor. They operate on single lines of input at a time (most of the time). Editors like emacs operate on a multi-line body of text, and most people expect those to work like the other text fields in their environment (Ctrl-C/X/V for copy/cut/past, Ctrl-A for select all, shift-home/end/arrows to select text etc.) I know you can activate those keybinding in Emacs, but then none of the documentation you find about keyboard shortcuts will apply to you. The fact that many places support emacs keybindings (like MATLAB or IntelliJ) are an indication of how many programmers are used to those keybindings, but beginning or aspiring users most certainly are not. Don't get me wrong. I love Emacs. I use Emacs everywhere, and for everything. But I know that the default behaviour and keybindings were a hurdle to overcome when I first got to know Emacs, and it took me time and effort to get comfortable within the editor.

vetinari 9y ago
Cocoa widgets for text entry in macOS support Emacs keybindings by default. Yes, TextEdit too. You cannot get nearer to beginning users than that. But yes, it takes a time to get used to. But that's matter of familiarity.
- sspiff 9y ago
  But only Emacs users use those keybindings with those widgets, so that's not a good argument to say "emacs keybindings are well known by novice users".
cben 9y ago
Emacs cua-mode is not bad. It does create some confusion with C-x shortcuts, eg. C-x C-s when typed too slowly will cut selected text and enter search, instead of saving :-( But I'd love a more total conversion to CUA... E.g. I have C-o to open files, and C-w to close buffer/window. https://gist.github.com/cben/ada7675ab9aa14000a1a50eae3986117 https://gist.github.com/cben/ada7675ab9aa14000a1a50eae398611... -- emacs user for >15yr, tired of motor context switching. (Terminal Ctrl+Shift+X/C/V vs it opening devtools in Chrome is bad enough...)

dgsb 9y ago

On my computers anything that uses readline behaves like vi.