7 ms·

Ironically, I think SpaceX will have a lot more trouble with any E2E ambitions than they would with missions to Mars. So much red tape, no one's going to want a

by Osmium 9y ago

Ironically, I think SpaceX will have a lot more trouble with any E2E ambitions than they would with missions to Mars. So much red tape, no one's going to want a space-port in their backyard, different/difficult economics, safety concerns, terrorism concerns, etc. etc.

extrapickles 9y ago
Thats why they show the spaceport out at sea, as it kills the standard NIMBY objections. Also the cities they want to fly out of don’t have enough room to easily build a spaceport.
- Osmium 9y ago
  If you think putting it a little out to sea would kill NIMBY objections .... still, we can but dream. I'm not entirely sure how serious SpaceX are about their E2E idea anyway, I took it as more of a "hey, isn't this neat? totally physically possible and practical too." I imagine it would take a long time to scale up to that point though, probably decades(?) after the Moon/Mars.
  - trevyn 9y ago
    Objections, sure, but any enforcement ability? That’s international waters.
    - mastazi 9y ago
      International waters start more than 20km out from the coastline (12 nm)[1], that would be a very long ferry just to reach the spaceport, not just a short hop like shown in the video... [1] https://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm https://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unc...
      - jerven 9y ago
        That's about half an hour at a not that fast 25 knots. 30 minutes from a city center. For any coastal city, that is likely to be no worse as the time to get to an intercontinental airport. Still means about 2h00 from NYC to Shangai, door to door. Quite an improvement over the 17hours today. Non coastal cities have a problem... In any case it takes care of most nimby as it's to far away for the neighbors to care. So reasonable, in that aspect. Of course ITAR, fear of nuclear strikes etc... general FAA/EASA regulations remain issues for this business plan. Weather will also be an issue. Flights rarely get canceled for weather issues. But transferring from a ferry onto a barge at high sea in bad wind seems like an non fun experience in a three piece suit.
        greedo 9y ago
        Couldn't you just use a Hyperloop to travel to the launch site?
        mastazi 9y ago
        > That's about half an hour at a not that fast 25 knots. [...] no worse as the time to get to an intercontinental airport yes you are right, I wasn't factoring in the fact that currently airline travel requires you to travel to an airport which is usually very far from the city centre.
  - icc97 9y ago
    E2E seems important as a way of making profit to reduce the cost of the Mars tickets. Also means you get more usage and testing of the rockets.
- grondilu 9y ago
  > Thats why they show the spaceport out at sea, I suspect putting the spaceport at sea is mainly a security issue. Failing to reach the landing pad is certainly less catastrophic on water than on the ground.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Not for the passengers, although if they can do a soft water landing and the ship is somewhat buoyant you have some chance of hull recovery. And that would actually be better than aircraft, there isn't such thing as a water landing there it's called crashing in the ocean.
    - grondilu 9y ago
      It will certainly be buoyant, provided it can dump its propellant in time. You also want your rocket to land in an uninhabited area, in case something goes terribly bad. Sea makes much sense in this regard.
- Rebelgecko 9y ago
  Boats already stop rockets from taking off somewhat regularly. I think a lot of people would be pissed off if they couldn't sail off the coasts of many major cities on a daily (or even more frequent?) basis.
  - the8472 9y ago
    Isn't that done for the safety of the ships, in case of debris coming down on them? If they make rockets reliable enough for passenger transport that wouldn't be an issue anymore.
pm 9y ago
Honestly I would love a spaceport in my backyard, seeing as we just hosted the International Astronautical Congress too.
- piquadrat 9y ago
  The International Astronautical Congress doesn't come with multiple sonic booms per day.
  - pm 9y ago
    Sure, but when we say the backyard, we're probably talking further inland than the capital city.

by Osmium 9y ago

extrapickles 9y ago

Thats why they show the spaceport out at sea, as it kills the standard NIMBY objections. Also the cities they want to fly out of don’t have enough room to easily build a spaceport.

Osmium 9y ago
If you think putting it a little out to sea would kill NIMBY objections .... still, we can but dream. I'm not entirely sure how serious SpaceX are about their E2E idea anyway, I took it as more of a "hey, isn't this neat? totally physically possible and practical too." I imagine it would take a long time to scale up to that point though, probably decades(?) after the Moon/Mars.
- trevyn 9y ago
  Objections, sure, but any enforcement ability? That’s international waters.
  - mastazi 9y ago
    International waters start more than 20km out from the coastline (12 nm)[1], that would be a very long ferry just to reach the spaceport, not just a short hop like shown in the video... [1] https://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm https://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unc...
    - jerven 9y ago
      That's about half an hour at a not that fast 25 knots. 30 minutes from a city center. For any coastal city, that is likely to be no worse as the time to get to an intercontinental airport. Still means about 2h00 from NYC to Shangai, door to door. Quite an improvement over the 17hours today. Non coastal cities have a problem... In any case it takes care of most nimby as it's to far away for the neighbors to care. So reasonable, in that aspect. Of course ITAR, fear of nuclear strikes etc... general FAA/EASA regulations remain issues for this business plan. Weather will also be an issue. Flights rarely get canceled for weather issues. But transferring from a ferry onto a barge at high sea in bad wind seems like an non fun experience in a three piece suit.
      - greedo 9y ago
        Couldn't you just use a Hyperloop to travel to the launch site?
      - mastazi 9y ago
        > That's about half an hour at a not that fast 25 knots. [...] no worse as the time to get to an intercontinental airport yes you are right, I wasn't factoring in the fact that currently airline travel requires you to travel to an airport which is usually very far from the city centre.
- icc97 9y ago
  E2E seems important as a way of making profit to reduce the cost of the Mars tickets. Also means you get more usage and testing of the rockets.
grondilu 9y ago
> Thats why they show the spaceport out at sea, I suspect putting the spaceport at sea is mainly a security issue. Failing to reach the landing pad is certainly less catastrophic on water than on the ground.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Not for the passengers, although if they can do a soft water landing and the ship is somewhat buoyant you have some chance of hull recovery. And that would actually be better than aircraft, there isn't such thing as a water landing there it's called crashing in the ocean.
  - grondilu 9y ago
    It will certainly be buoyant, provided it can dump its propellant in time. You also want your rocket to land in an uninhabited area, in case something goes terribly bad. Sea makes much sense in this regard.
Rebelgecko 9y ago
Boats already stop rockets from taking off somewhat regularly. I think a lot of people would be pissed off if they couldn't sail off the coasts of many major cities on a daily (or even more frequent?) basis.
- the8472 9y ago
  Isn't that done for the safety of the ships, in case of debris coming down on them? If they make rockets reliable enough for passenger transport that wouldn't be an issue anymore.

pm 9y ago

Honestly I would love a spaceport in my backyard, seeing as we just hosted the International Astronautical Congress too.

piquadrat 9y ago
The International Astronautical Congress doesn't come with multiple sonic booms per day.
- pm 9y ago
  Sure, but when we say the backyard, we're probably talking further inland than the capital city.