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> I actively do not want anyone but Apple to be able to mess with the hardware authentication chain on my iPhone Why doesn't encryption sidestep this issue for

> I actively do not want anyone but Apple to be able to mess with the hardware authentication chain on my iPhone Why doesn't encryption sidestep this issue for you?

kccqzy 9y ago
How does encryption sidestep this issue at all?
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  The whole point of the security of TouchID hardware is to prevent someone else from authenticating as you by messing with the hardware. But that becomes a non-issue when your data is encrypted, since a thief wouldn't have the password to decrypt it anyway.
  - gruturo 9y ago
    Your fingerprints are given in clear, from your fingertips to the sensor surface. You can add all the security in the world after the sensor, but you need to be able to trust it, because it has access to the raw data. Same for face ID - the very first piece of hardware capturing the data has to be trustworthy or the whole chain cannot be trusted.
    - throwaway613834 9y ago
      What I'm trying to say is that you should be using software security rather than hardware security.
      - throaway1234567 9y ago
        What I think they're trying to say is that using software security with no hardware security doesn't fix the issue of what happens when someone modifies your device to add hardware that is capable of skimming your software encryption keys.
        throwaway613834 9y ago
        Isn't that an entirely different threat than the one we're worried about here? The issue here is what happens when someone gets a hold of your phone and tries to get your data off it. This is NOT even remotely the same threat as someone secretly getting your phone, secretly opening it and installing a backdoor touchscreen reader, then sealing it back up perfectly and leaving it somewhere for you to find it with no trace without you realizing anything has gone wrong. The latter is far harder to pull off and far less likely to occur. Even CBP officers who take your phone wouldn't do this sort of thing. I don't really know of any evidence that this is the threat that Apple has been trying to mitigate, let alone that they have had any success in doing so. It's a non-argument as far as the discussions about Apple's existing security measures go.

> I actively do not want anyone but Apple to be able to mess with the hardware authentication chain on my iPhone Why doesn't encryption sidestep this issue for you?

kccqzy 9y ago

How does encryption sidestep this issue at all?

throwaway613834 9y ago
The whole point of the security of TouchID hardware is to prevent someone else from authenticating as you by messing with the hardware. But that becomes a non-issue when your data is encrypted, since a thief wouldn't have the password to decrypt it anyway.
- gruturo 9y ago
  Your fingerprints are given in clear, from your fingertips to the sensor surface. You can add all the security in the world after the sensor, but you need to be able to trust it, because it has access to the raw data. Same for face ID - the very first piece of hardware capturing the data has to be trustworthy or the whole chain cannot be trusted.
  - throwaway613834 9y ago
    What I'm trying to say is that you should be using software security rather than hardware security.
    - throaway1234567 9y ago
      What I think they're trying to say is that using software security with no hardware security doesn't fix the issue of what happens when someone modifies your device to add hardware that is capable of skimming your software encryption keys.
      - throwaway613834 9y ago
        Isn't that an entirely different threat than the one we're worried about here? The issue here is what happens when someone gets a hold of your phone and tries to get your data off it. This is NOT even remotely the same threat as someone secretly getting your phone, secretly opening it and installing a backdoor touchscreen reader, then sealing it back up perfectly and leaving it somewhere for you to find it with no trace without you realizing anything has gone wrong. The latter is far harder to pull off and far less likely to occur. Even CBP officers who take your phone wouldn't do this sort of thing. I don't really know of any evidence that this is the threat that Apple has been trying to mitigate, let alone that they have had any success in doing so. It's a non-argument as far as the discussions about Apple's existing security measures go.