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How about right to use your stuff how you want? Like not paying 10s of thousands for a Tesla that has a clause against using autopilot with ride sharing servic

by yahna 9y ago

How about right to use your stuff how you want? Like not paying 10s of thousands for a Tesla that has a clause against using autopilot with ride sharing services other than Tesla.

4ad 9y ago
Where do I find all this mythical stuff that I want? I want a new car with no software, no computers, no GPS, no radio, no power windows, no keyless entry, no thermostat. Where do I find it? Realistically I can only chose between crap I don't want. And if I buy an older car, not only I have to deal with problems that would otherwise be avoidable if I bought a new car, but the government doesn't want me to use old cars. Great freedom of choice. What a life.
- zvpxdlk 9y ago
  Build your own car that fits your dreams perfectly. You have plenty of freedom to choose to do that
  - 4ad 9y ago
    Actually, no, you don't. Where I live it's almost impossible to make any kind of artisanal car street-legal.
- leopoldo 9y ago
  You know what? I got your answer, I have this beautiful 0-mile device without all those gadgets and crap. No keyless entry, no GPS, no radio, no (power)windows, no thermostat, minor software and computers (just to control the engine and emmissions). If you want add-ons you add them yourself: - GPS -> mount your smartphone - Thermostat -> more/less clothes - Radio -> get a bluetooth headset for your helmet - The list can go on and on... You just described my motorcycle! Beautiful 0-miles engine (took it out of the dealership this week). It has no unnecessary stuff and that's what I love the most about it. I do pretty much all the maintenance myself and the community of motorcycle riders is very supportive and helpful to do so. Now... Why isn't there a car company that builds cars on the same level of complexity? I know comfort/luxury sells. But there should be a tier of cars that are easily serviceable. Meanwhile, I highly recommend you get a motorcycle :)
  - wcarron 9y ago
    I also ride a motorcycle. Just got a new sportster and love it. I'll agree that it is wonderful not ever having to adjust a damn radio, roll windows up or worry about broken AC. It's great for all the reasons you described. I also agree with your point that there __should__ be a market for a no-frills car of the same design philosophy. However, I would NEVER recommend that someone get a motorcycle. You and I both know the risks. Literally every time we roll out we can be killed or maimed brutally. I think it's actually pretty irresponsible to recommend them to other people. > Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety#Accident_Rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety#Accident_Rat... (the official sources are cited in the article) Now, I could totally be missing the humor in this, in which case, ignore me.
    - userbinator 9y ago
      I think it's actually pretty irresponsible to recommend them to other people. I disagree. It's the old freedom vs. security/safety argument. I have no qualms about recommending motorcycles or even just older and simpler cars, because safety is not the only factor and a lot of the time it's used as an argument to take away freedom. You can be perfectly safe by spending your entire life locked away in a jail cell... and you'll still die.
      - wcarron 9y ago
        It's not that I think people should not ride motorcycles. It's that WE are aware of the heightened level of danger, extra things to watch for, etc. Most people are not and recommending motorcycles casually to people who may not grasp the risks is setting them up to get fucked, pardon the language. I do think an amendment to my original statement is needed, though: I would NEVER recommend them to other people without firmly impressing upon them the value of safety courses and the risks involved.
  - 4ad 9y ago
    Thank goodness they didn't manage to compromise motorcycles yet!
- Animats 9y ago
  The base Jeep Wrangler looks like that, but in fact, it has anti-skid braking, stability control, and electronic engine control. Everything is too integrated. In the first year, I had a bug where the software would crash and restart going uphill in hot weather. The engine would stop and restart, the transmission would downshift, all the lights on the dashboard would light up momentarily, and the CD player would reset.
- dx034 9y ago
  Not sure about the US but in Europe there are some cheaper cars that have basically no "extras" in the cheapest model. You'll end up with some softwares and computers but probably close to what you'd get in any 10y old car. And it's cheap, the Dacia Sandero costs <£6,000 as a new car (~$8,000). But you'll also end up with a less secure car probably.
- turk184 9y ago
  I disagree--the incentives to own and operate older cars are there. My new car has a huge license fee that degrades as the car ages. Same with insurance--my 30 year old BMW with only basic liability coverage is a couple hundred bucks a years whereas our new 2017 Toyota with all the bells and whistles is nearly a grand.
Fej 9y ago
Has anyone tested this clause? Tesla can write whatever they want into a contract; that doesn't mean it'll be held up in the courts.
- hydrogen18 9y ago
  When Tesla sues you over it, can you afford a lawyer to defend yourself?
  - sova 9y ago
    Claim:Tesla institutes a strict no suit policy in tech to promote adoption of electric cars. Supporting evidence: + all their patents are open for that reason. + Elon has said personally that it is of no use to be the last human standing on a sinking ship. Personally, I think they may actually fancy people doing their own repairs.

by yahna 9y ago

How about right to use your stuff how you want? Like not paying 10s of thousands for a Tesla that has a clause against using autopilot with ride sharing services other than Tesla.

4ad 9y ago

Where do I find all this mythical stuff that I want? I want a new car with no software, no computers, no GPS, no radio, no power windows, no keyless entry, no thermostat. Where do I find it? Realistically I can only chose between crap I don't want. And if I buy an older car, not only I have to deal with problems that would otherwise be avoidable if I bought a new car, but the government doesn't want me to use old cars. Great freedom of choice. What a life.

zvpxdlk 9y ago
Build your own car that fits your dreams perfectly. You have plenty of freedom to choose to do that
- 4ad 9y ago
  Actually, no, you don't. Where I live it's almost impossible to make any kind of artisanal car street-legal.
leopoldo 9y ago
You know what? I got your answer, I have this beautiful 0-mile device without all those gadgets and crap. No keyless entry, no GPS, no radio, no (power)windows, no thermostat, minor software and computers (just to control the engine and emmissions). If you want add-ons you add them yourself: - GPS -> mount your smartphone - Thermostat -> more/less clothes - Radio -> get a bluetooth headset for your helmet - The list can go on and on... You just described my motorcycle! Beautiful 0-miles engine (took it out of the dealership this week). It has no unnecessary stuff and that's what I love the most about it. I do pretty much all the maintenance myself and the community of motorcycle riders is very supportive and helpful to do so. Now... Why isn't there a car company that builds cars on the same level of complexity? I know comfort/luxury sells. But there should be a tier of cars that are easily serviceable. Meanwhile, I highly recommend you get a motorcycle :)
- wcarron 9y ago
  I also ride a motorcycle. Just got a new sportster and love it. I'll agree that it is wonderful not ever having to adjust a damn radio, roll windows up or worry about broken AC. It's great for all the reasons you described. I also agree with your point that there __should__ be a market for a no-frills car of the same design philosophy. However, I would NEVER recommend that someone get a motorcycle. You and I both know the risks. Literally every time we roll out we can be killed or maimed brutally. I think it's actually pretty irresponsible to recommend them to other people. > Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety#Accident_Rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety#Accident_Rat... (the official sources are cited in the article) Now, I could totally be missing the humor in this, in which case, ignore me.
  - userbinator 9y ago
    I think it's actually pretty irresponsible to recommend them to other people. I disagree. It's the old freedom vs. security/safety argument. I have no qualms about recommending motorcycles or even just older and simpler cars, because safety is not the only factor and a lot of the time it's used as an argument to take away freedom. You can be perfectly safe by spending your entire life locked away in a jail cell... and you'll still die.
    - wcarron 9y ago
      It's not that I think people should not ride motorcycles. It's that WE are aware of the heightened level of danger, extra things to watch for, etc. Most people are not and recommending motorcycles casually to people who may not grasp the risks is setting them up to get fucked, pardon the language. I do think an amendment to my original statement is needed, though: I would NEVER recommend them to other people without firmly impressing upon them the value of safety courses and the risks involved.
- 4ad 9y ago
  Thank goodness they didn't manage to compromise motorcycles yet!
Animats 9y ago
The base Jeep Wrangler looks like that, but in fact, it has anti-skid braking, stability control, and electronic engine control. Everything is too integrated. In the first year, I had a bug where the software would crash and restart going uphill in hot weather. The engine would stop and restart, the transmission would downshift, all the lights on the dashboard would light up momentarily, and the CD player would reset.
dx034 9y ago
Not sure about the US but in Europe there are some cheaper cars that have basically no "extras" in the cheapest model. You'll end up with some softwares and computers but probably close to what you'd get in any 10y old car. And it's cheap, the Dacia Sandero costs <£6,000 as a new car (~$8,000). But you'll also end up with a less secure car probably.
turk184 9y ago
I disagree--the incentives to own and operate older cars are there. My new car has a huge license fee that degrades as the car ages. Same with insurance--my 30 year old BMW with only basic liability coverage is a couple hundred bucks a years whereas our new 2017 Toyota with all the bells and whistles is nearly a grand.

Fej 9y ago

Has anyone tested this clause? Tesla can write whatever they want into a contract; that doesn't mean it'll be held up in the courts.

hydrogen18 9y ago
When Tesla sues you over it, can you afford a lawyer to defend yourself?
- sova 9y ago
  Claim:Tesla institutes a strict no suit policy in tech to promote adoption of electric cars. Supporting evidence: + all their patents are open for that reason. + Elon has said personally that it is of no use to be the last human standing on a sinking ship. Personally, I think they may actually fancy people doing their own repairs.