5 ms·

You missed it? "If you do want to talk to me, I can tell the juvenile court judge or adult court judge and Probation Officer what you tell me."

by 5ilv3r 9y ago

gknoy 9y ago
They could have also added, "... and could even be used as evidence against you in court".
- tuxxy 9y ago
  Exactly! Of course they can phrase it differently if needed. Just because the officer tells them that they can tell the judge what they say doesn't at all imply that it could cause the child to get in more trouble.
mattnewport 9y ago
I'd say it's missing anything as clear as "Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law.", that implication is not obvious from the new warning to me.
- eridius 9y ago
  How is that not an obvious implication though? Does anyone actually think "oh yeah I can tell the cop, who can tell the judge, but the judge definitely won't use that info in the courtroom!"
  - mattnewport 9y ago
    The whole point of this effort is because the language of the standard Miranda is supposedly too difficult to understand for some people...
    - eridius 9y ago
      Right, but the argument is that "the cop can tell the judge" is somehow not sufficient to imply that this information can be used against the person in court. But what other reason would there be to tell the judge? It seems like a pretty obvious implication that if the cop tells it to the judge, it can be used in court.
      - mattnewport 9y ago
        It's misleading I think, people generally know the judge is supposed to be impartial, it's the "used against you" part that is key. Surprisingly few people realize that you should under no circumstances talk to the police without a lawyer, especially if you're innocent.
Chaebixi 9y ago
Have you ever watched this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE All kinds of people think they can talk their way out of an arrest. Unsavvy people might interpret that statement as saying their excuses and explanations will passed up to people who will listen sympathetically or at least could be convinced. They don't realize their statements can only cause them harm. I think that kind of misconception would be especially true for juveniles.
- derekp7 9y ago
  What if you are in a situation where the officer really thinks you are innocent, but has to follow through with a complaint? Saying you want a lawyer and not talking at all may make the officer change his mind, thinking you have something to hide, and want to pursue the case further, whereas if the officer has already made up his mind that you are innocent, then saying what they want to hear can work in your favor. Of course the problem is you really don't know what the officer thinks. But you may be able to pick up on that if you are good at reading body language.
  - jstarfish 9y ago
    Yeah, that's what they want you to think. "We're just here to get this cleared up and get you on your way. Just talk to me, buddy." You are under no obligation to attest to your innocence. It's not your responsibility to do so. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. You cannot refuse to provide identification (or do a roadside sobriety test). But if there is no probable cause to pursue the matter further, there's only so much they can do without your testimony. There's a lot of damage they can do with your testimony though.
  - phjesusthatguy3 9y ago
    If you're being read your Miranda rights, you are already under arrest and your best course of action is to not say anything to anyone unless it's your lawyer.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    There is not a single thing a completely and perfectly innocent person can say to a cop in their own defense which would not almost certainly harm them for saying it. Other than your name, that you are excercising your right to remain silent (important to state this explicitly), and you would like to speak to a lawyer. Please watch this if you haven't, it's very entertaining and absolutely true: "Don't Talk to the Police" https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

You missed it? "If you do want to talk to me, I can tell the juvenile court judge or adult court judge and Probation Officer what you tell me."

by 5ilv3r 9y ago

You missed it? "If you do want to talk to me, I can tell the juvenile court judge or adult court judge and Probation Officer what you tell me."

gknoy 9y ago

They could have also added, "... and could even be used as evidence against you in court".

tuxxy 9y ago
Exactly! Of course they can phrase it differently if needed. Just because the officer tells them that they can tell the judge what they say doesn't at all imply that it could cause the child to get in more trouble.

mattnewport 9y ago

I'd say it's missing anything as clear as "Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law.", that implication is not obvious from the new warning to me.

eridius 9y ago
How is that not an obvious implication though? Does anyone actually think "oh yeah I can tell the cop, who can tell the judge, but the judge definitely won't use that info in the courtroom!"
- mattnewport 9y ago
  The whole point of this effort is because the language of the standard Miranda is supposedly too difficult to understand for some people...
  - eridius 9y ago
    Right, but the argument is that "the cop can tell the judge" is somehow not sufficient to imply that this information can be used against the person in court. But what other reason would there be to tell the judge? It seems like a pretty obvious implication that if the cop tells it to the judge, it can be used in court.
    - mattnewport 9y ago
      It's misleading I think, people generally know the judge is supposed to be impartial, it's the "used against you" part that is key. Surprisingly few people realize that you should under no circumstances talk to the police without a lawyer, especially if you're innocent.

Chaebixi 9y ago

Have you ever watched this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE All kinds of people think they can talk their way out of an arrest. Unsavvy people might interpret that statement as saying their excuses and explanations will passed up to people who will listen sympathetically or at least could be convinced. They don't realize their statements can only cause them harm. I think that kind of misconception would be especially true for juveniles.

derekp7 9y ago
What if you are in a situation where the officer really thinks you are innocent, but has to follow through with a complaint? Saying you want a lawyer and not talking at all may make the officer change his mind, thinking you have something to hide, and want to pursue the case further, whereas if the officer has already made up his mind that you are innocent, then saying what they want to hear can work in your favor. Of course the problem is you really don't know what the officer thinks. But you may be able to pick up on that if you are good at reading body language.
- jstarfish 9y ago
  Yeah, that's what they want you to think. "We're just here to get this cleared up and get you on your way. Just talk to me, buddy." You are under no obligation to attest to your innocence. It's not your responsibility to do so. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. You cannot refuse to provide identification (or do a roadside sobriety test). But if there is no probable cause to pursue the matter further, there's only so much they can do without your testimony. There's a lot of damage they can do with your testimony though.
- phjesusthatguy3 9y ago
  If you're being read your Miranda rights, you are already under arrest and your best course of action is to not say anything to anyone unless it's your lawyer.
- zaroth 9y ago
  There is not a single thing a completely and perfectly innocent person can say to a cop in their own defense which would not almost certainly harm them for saying it. Other than your name, that you are excercising your right to remain silent (important to state this explicitly), and you would like to speak to a lawyer. Please watch this if you haven't, it's very entertaining and absolutely true: "Don't Talk to the Police" https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE