5 ms·

You have that backwards. You replied to a comment of mine in a manner that implies a great many negative things about me and my marriage. Those implications are

by Mz 9y ago

You have that backwards. You replied to a comment of mine in a manner that implies a great many negative things about me and my marriage. Those implications are entirely inaccurate, but given that this is an overwhelmingly male forum, it is a no win situation for me. Not rebutting them implies that you are correct. Rebutting them has resulted in my comment getting downvoted and now you acting like your feelings of offense vastly outweigh the importance of my feelings of offense. And we do not agree: He was not a bad choice for me.

gkya 9y ago
If I couldn't get my point across, that's probably my bad; I wasn't implying your person with the pronoun you in that comment, I'm sorry. I was trying to talk about relationships in general. And I may have misunderstood you, I'm sorry about that too. But this is a discussion, not a contest of who's offended whom more, or of correctness.
- Mz 9y ago
  So, when you tell me to delete something because it offends you, that's fine. When I tell you that your remark was just as offensive to me, you add yet another criticism of me to your track record and act like I am behaving badly for mentioning that I am offended. This is exactly why emotional labor is a popular catch phrase: Because women are expected to care deeply about how men feel and to twist themselves out of shape to cater to the feelings of men. But, how women feel is not supposed to matter.
ZenoArrow 9y ago
> "Those implications are entirely inaccurate, but given that this is an overwhelmingly male forum, it is a no win situation for me." How does the fact that HN is an overwhelmingly male forum make this a no win situation for you? Are you suggesting that only a few HN members could ever see things from your point of view? For what it's worth, I thought that this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15359215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15359215 was a little too callous, but not in an intentional way. Talking about relationship problems in broad strokes after someone gave specific details about an old relationship is almost never going to end well, as it sounds like they're summarising a relationship they have no knowledge of. However, I get the sense that gkya was talking in broader strokes to talk about patterns rather than single cases, so whilst it sounded like it was about a specific relationship considering the context, in practice it was just a badly directed comment, in my opinion.
- Mz 9y ago
  And yet you are crabbing at me instead of them. Why is that?
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    Because they're not the one that conflated gender with understanding, and that's what I found interesting about your exchange. The rest of the discussion was just a common form of miscommunication that happens when someone wants to talk about specifics and the other wants to talk in generics, and the two collide.
    - Mz 9y ago
      I am not conflating anything and I have no idea why you would claim that I am.
      - ZenoArrow 9y ago
        What did you intend to suggest with "given that this is an overwhelmingly male forum"?
        Mz 9y ago
        I am the top ranked openly female member here. That observation is informed by long experience. In gendered discussions that get heated, the majority of people on HN will tend to side with the man or the male point of view. Once a man says or does something moderately problematic that is a stereotypically gendered issue, the odds are long against a woman getting a fair shake. Your choice to reply to me and accuse me of making this a gendered issue instead of siding with me and letting them know that their remark is a sort that does not work well is completely consistent with that pattern.
        ZenoArrow 9y ago
        > "I am the top ranked openly female member here. That observation is informed by long experience. In gendered discussions that get heated, the majority of people on HN will tend to side with the man or the male point of view." With all due respect, on HN I don't care whether I'm replying to a man or a woman, someone young or old, someone who lives close or lives far away. I barely even look at usernames, and will often only do so if I'm replying to someone, or someone makes an interesting comment (good or bad). If you say you're the top ranked openly female member here, good for you, but it honestly makes no difference to me. If you've found yourself getting flak for being a woman, I'm sorry about that, there's no justification for that, but I suspect that many people are of a similar mindset to me and judge based on written content rather than background. > "Your choice to reply to me and accuse me of making this a gendered issue instead of siding with me and letting them know that their remark is a sort that does not work well is completely consistent with that pattern." I commented on your gender remark AND sided with you in the general discussion in the exact same comment. I did not take one side over another. How you could come to any other conclusion is beyond me. Here it is again: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15360339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15360339 EDIT: To the people downvoting Mz in this comment thread, can you not please, it's not warranted.

by Mz 9y ago

gkya 9y ago

If I couldn't get my point across, that's probably my bad; I wasn't implying your person with the pronoun you in that comment, I'm sorry. I was trying to talk about relationships in general. And I may have misunderstood you, I'm sorry about that too. But this is a discussion, not a contest of who's offended whom more, or of correctness.

Mz 9y ago
So, when you tell me to delete something because it offends you, that's fine. When I tell you that your remark was just as offensive to me, you add yet another criticism of me to your track record and act like I am behaving badly for mentioning that I am offended. This is exactly why emotional labor is a popular catch phrase: Because women are expected to care deeply about how men feel and to twist themselves out of shape to cater to the feelings of men. But, how women feel is not supposed to matter.

ZenoArrow 9y ago

> "Those implications are entirely inaccurate, but given that this is an overwhelmingly male forum, it is a no win situation for me." How does the fact that HN is an overwhelmingly male forum make this a no win situation for you? Are you suggesting that only a few HN members could ever see things from your point of view? For what it's worth, I thought that this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15359215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15359215 was a little too callous, but not in an intentional way. Talking about relationship problems in broad strokes after someone gave specific details about an old relationship is almost never going to end well, as it sounds like they're summarising a relationship they have no knowledge of. However, I get the sense that gkya was talking in broader strokes to talk about patterns rather than single cases, so whilst it sounded like it was about a specific relationship considering the context, in practice it was just a badly directed comment, in my opinion.

Mz 9y ago
And yet you are crabbing at me instead of them. Why is that?
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  Because they're not the one that conflated gender with understanding, and that's what I found interesting about your exchange. The rest of the discussion was just a common form of miscommunication that happens when someone wants to talk about specifics and the other wants to talk in generics, and the two collide.
  - Mz 9y ago
    I am not conflating anything and I have no idea why you would claim that I am.
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      What did you intend to suggest with "given that this is an overwhelmingly male forum"?
      - Mz 9y ago
        I am the top ranked openly female member here. That observation is informed by long experience. In gendered discussions that get heated, the majority of people on HN will tend to side with the man or the male point of view. Once a man says or does something moderately problematic that is a stereotypically gendered issue, the odds are long against a woman getting a fair shake. Your choice to reply to me and accuse me of making this a gendered issue instead of siding with me and letting them know that their remark is a sort that does not work well is completely consistent with that pattern.
        ZenoArrow 9y ago
        > "I am the top ranked openly female member here. That observation is informed by long experience. In gendered discussions that get heated, the majority of people on HN will tend to side with the man or the male point of view." With all due respect, on HN I don't care whether I'm replying to a man or a woman, someone young or old, someone who lives close or lives far away. I barely even look at usernames, and will often only do so if I'm replying to someone, or someone makes an interesting comment (good or bad). If you say you're the top ranked openly female member here, good for you, but it honestly makes no difference to me. If you've found yourself getting flak for being a woman, I'm sorry about that, there's no justification for that, but I suspect that many people are of a similar mindset to me and judge based on written content rather than background. > "Your choice to reply to me and accuse me of making this a gendered issue instead of siding with me and letting them know that their remark is a sort that does not work well is completely consistent with that pattern." I commented on your gender remark AND sided with you in the general discussion in the exact same comment. I did not take one side over another. How you could come to any other conclusion is beyond me. Here it is again: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15360339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15360339 EDIT: To the people downvoting Mz in this comment thread, can you not please, it's not warranted.