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But there's a problem with how that stuff is bundled. I went to a school that lavished money on its sports programs (at least relative to the team's performance

But there's a problem with how that stuff is bundled. I went to a school that lavished money on its sports programs (at least relative to the team's performance) and many of the sports programs were supported (in part) by mandatory student fees. If I had the option to go to the school without paying for the team, I would have certainly done so. Though the school was still 'worth it' but dang it, I could have had more consumer surplus. Another issue (probably not the first piece of fat I'd cut) is title 9 sports - schools have to make sports programs accessible to women and men and they most commonly do this by creating women's and men's teams. I don't have a good understanding of the law but there might be a better allocation of resources if they simply opened teams to both sexes rather than creating sexually differentiated teams.

kbenson 9y ago
> But there's a problem with how that stuff is bundled. Sure. I wasn't endorsing the system, just explaining it as I see it. > schools have to make sports programs accessible to women and men ... might be a better allocation of resources if they simply opened teams to both sexes rather than creating sexually differentiated teams. I think that only works in a world where women and men are both physically capable equally in all aspects. That's not reality though, and at the high performance levels these teams play at, that difference is likely exacerbated to the degree that for many sports mixed teams would really just mean a starting lineup of one sex, which is not exactly succeeding at making it accessible if that's the goal. Interestingly, if there were enough variation in the peak mental abilities we might see a similar segregation at peak performance levels. I suspect that while there is evidence that men and women often have different mental aptitudes, that's on average and at peak there is little difference in potential (even though there may be a difference in occurrence). E.g. There's plenty of evidence and reason to believe the strongest person that ever lived in the world is male, but there's not a lot of evidence to believe the smartest person that ever lived in the world, or even in any one field, is male (even if it may by likely to currently be one sec or the other based on ratios of interest).
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  I don't see it the same way, sure the power of the purse and all but if the Federal Government can't coerce states to follow immigration law as a condition of accepting some federal grants, we may as well say that the feds can't tie money to behavior and just let the chips fall where they may. I get that women and men have different physical capabilities but why split it on gender? Why not split it on race? There isn't much racial equity in some sports, apparently some races can't compete as well as others and the demographics speak for themselves. Better yet, why not split sports by work ethic? I'd be more inclined to do sports if I could play with people who are similarly disinterested and the status quo isn't very accessible to me: a person who over eats, sleeps in, and forgets rules. I'm sure we can map that to a disparate impact somewhere. Or ignore the discussion entirely and say "we'll let colleges decide how to handle their sports programs".
  - kbenson 9y ago
    > I don't see it the same way, sure the power of the purse and all but if the Federal Government can't coerce states to follow immigration law as a condition of accepting some federal grants, we may as well say that the feds can't tie money to behavior and just let the chips fall where they may. I'm confused, I wasn't making any case for that. I'm not sure where we got to Federal funding tied to specific program attributes. > I get that women and men have different physical capabilities but why split it on gender? Why not split it on race? There isn't much racial equity in some sports, apparently some races can't compete as well as others and the demographics speak for themselves. Do they, or is that primarily a matter of socioeconomics and class providing less traditional opportunities for certain ethnic groups, leading them to funnel effort in alternate areas, such as sports? It could also be a cyclical system, where many role models for a race are currently in specific areas (such as entertainment and sports) influencing newer generations. I wouldn't be comfortable attributing it to genetic variance of physical capability without a bit more info.
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      >I'm confused, I wasn't making any case for that. I'm not sure where we got to Federal funding tied to specific program attributes. Federal funding coerces schools into offering women's sports programs. > I wouldn't be comfortable attributing it to genetic variance of physical capability without a bit more info. Why do we have to attribute the difference to genetics or physical capability to make sports programs accessible? What about mental capability? Mentally impaired, physically okay individuals compete in the special Olympics. Why not create a class for people who are using performance enhancement drugs?

kbenson 9y ago

> But there's a problem with how that stuff is bundled. Sure. I wasn't endorsing the system, just explaining it as I see it. > schools have to make sports programs accessible to women and men ... might be a better allocation of resources if they simply opened teams to both sexes rather than creating sexually differentiated teams. I think that only works in a world where women and men are both physically capable equally in all aspects. That's not reality though, and at the high performance levels these teams play at, that difference is likely exacerbated to the degree that for many sports mixed teams would really just mean a starting lineup of one sex, which is not exactly succeeding at making it accessible if that's the goal. Interestingly, if there were enough variation in the peak mental abilities we might see a similar segregation at peak performance levels. I suspect that while there is evidence that men and women often have different mental aptitudes, that's on average and at peak there is little difference in potential (even though there may be a difference in occurrence). E.g. There's plenty of evidence and reason to believe the strongest person that ever lived in the world is male, but there's not a lot of evidence to believe the smartest person that ever lived in the world, or even in any one field, is male (even if it may by likely to currently be one sec or the other based on ratios of interest).

alexanderstears 9y ago
I don't see it the same way, sure the power of the purse and all but if the Federal Government can't coerce states to follow immigration law as a condition of accepting some federal grants, we may as well say that the feds can't tie money to behavior and just let the chips fall where they may. I get that women and men have different physical capabilities but why split it on gender? Why not split it on race? There isn't much racial equity in some sports, apparently some races can't compete as well as others and the demographics speak for themselves. Better yet, why not split sports by work ethic? I'd be more inclined to do sports if I could play with people who are similarly disinterested and the status quo isn't very accessible to me: a person who over eats, sleeps in, and forgets rules. I'm sure we can map that to a disparate impact somewhere. Or ignore the discussion entirely and say "we'll let colleges decide how to handle their sports programs".
- kbenson 9y ago
  > I don't see it the same way, sure the power of the purse and all but if the Federal Government can't coerce states to follow immigration law as a condition of accepting some federal grants, we may as well say that the feds can't tie money to behavior and just let the chips fall where they may. I'm confused, I wasn't making any case for that. I'm not sure where we got to Federal funding tied to specific program attributes. > I get that women and men have different physical capabilities but why split it on gender? Why not split it on race? There isn't much racial equity in some sports, apparently some races can't compete as well as others and the demographics speak for themselves. Do they, or is that primarily a matter of socioeconomics and class providing less traditional opportunities for certain ethnic groups, leading them to funnel effort in alternate areas, such as sports? It could also be a cyclical system, where many role models for a race are currently in specific areas (such as entertainment and sports) influencing newer generations. I wouldn't be comfortable attributing it to genetic variance of physical capability without a bit more info.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    >I'm confused, I wasn't making any case for that. I'm not sure where we got to Federal funding tied to specific program attributes. Federal funding coerces schools into offering women's sports programs. > I wouldn't be comfortable attributing it to genetic variance of physical capability without a bit more info. Why do we have to attribute the difference to genetics or physical capability to make sports programs accessible? What about mental capability? Mentally impaired, physically okay individuals compete in the special Olympics. Why not create a class for people who are using performance enhancement drugs?