6 ms·

Why pens have rubbery grips

31 points by lainon 9y ago

yazan94 9y ago
TLDR from the article: > Because the keratin softens when it is hydrated by the moisture secreted from the sweat pores, it requires many seconds for the contact area to increase to the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber.
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  The most interesting thing from the bottom of the abstract. This mechanism might be used by our tactile sense to identify materials and has implications for the design of tactile displays.
- daxorid 9y ago
  This is interesting, yes, but it seems immediately ... odd to me. Do we use rubber to manufacture tires because the frictional coefficient between rubber and asphalt is established rapidly due to asphalt sweating? No, it's because the frictional coefficient is already rather high to begin with. Is this not the case with rubber-keratin as well? Why involve sweat when static friction is sufficiently explanatory?
  - city41 9y ago
    They are talking about non rubbery surfaces > When encountering a smooth, stiff, and impermeable surface, such as polished metal or glass, the actual contact area is initially small as is the friction. Because the keratin softens when it is hydrated by the moisture secreted from the sweat pores, it requires many seconds for the contact area to increase to the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber.
    - euyyn 9y ago
      As compared to rubbery ones. > the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber
  - tgb 9y ago
    The role of sweat appears to be to make the keratin in the finger softer and allowing more of it to contact the hard surface. This is unnecessary when contacting a rubber surface since the rubber surface is already soft. I.e. rubber makes the sweating unnecessary and hence works even against hard surfaces like non-sweaty keratin or asphalt.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tomc1985 9y ago
Because it sucks to hold a plastic pen slipping around in sweaty hands?
- _h_o_d_ 9y ago
  Terrible title problems. To save time, here's the outline given when you click on the link: TL-DR: 'Why does gripping a pen, tool, or handle feel more secure when it is coated with a rubbery material? The keratin of the skin outer layer is stiff and rough at a small scale. When encountering a smooth, stiff, and impermeable surface, such as polished metal or glass, the actual contact area is initially small as is the friction. Because the keratin softens when it is hydrated by the moisture secreted from the sweat pores, it requires many seconds for the contact area to increase to the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber. This mechanism might be used by our tactile sense to identify materials and has implications for the design of tactile displays. '
qwerty_asdf 9y ago
Most commodity ballpoint pens didn't have rubbery grips prior to the mid 1990's. I remember back-to-school shopping at the end of one summer, and most of the bags of pens were upgraded to have built-in grips. Prior to that, you'd buy triangular slip-on sleeves separately, if you wanted additional gripping traction. It was a trend that started, and progressed like many other marketing arms races. One stand-out product emerged and out sold the normal offerings, due to novelty, and all other imitators jumped on the band wagon to cash in on that novelty.
- katastic 9y ago
  >triangular slip-on sleeves separately As someone who grew up in the 90's, I can almost guarantee you would get the crap beat out of them for walking into school with something like that. Thank goodness they're integrated into the pen now!
  - tpeo 9y ago
    Being bullied for this? Really?
    - kleer001 9y ago
      It's a pecking order instinct. I'm sure even lobsters do it. The algorithm goes like this: find someone weaker than you, focus on any difference however small or imaginary, initiate pecking, preserve your place in the hierarchy.
      - christoph 9y ago
        So true. My nephew has a small mole on his nose. I never notice it, nobody in my immediate family notices it, but he gets bullied at school over it, to the point he wants it surgically removed. He’s six.
        apk-d 9y ago
        Worst thing is, the bullies don't care about it either. They just need an excuse. It's hard to believe how ruthless kids can be to each other. School was forever ago, but I still don't miss it.
vaishaksuresh 9y ago
How is this a thing that needs explaining?
- zaroth 9y ago
  Try actually reading the paper. The analysis is actually quite compelling.
  - vaishaksuresh 9y ago
    I did read the paper and I'm not saying the analysis isn't compelling. I'm saying it is obvious and does not need a paper to be explained.
    - zaroth 9y ago
      The process by which human fingers gives rise to stable contacts with smooth, hard objects is surprisingly slow. Using high-resolution imaging, we found that, when pressed against glass, the actual contact made by finger pad ridges evolved over time following a first-order kinetics relationship. This evolution was the result of a two-stage coalescence process of microscopic junctions made between the keratin of the stratum corneum of the skin and the glass surface. This process was driven by the secretion of moisture from the sweat glands, since increased hydration in stratum corneum causes it to become softer. Saturation was typically reached within 20 s of loading the contact, regardless of the initial moisture state of the finger and of the normal force applied. So, nothing to see here, totally obvious?
      - vaishaksuresh 9y ago
        Many words to say "Moist fingers grips smooth,hard objects better than dry finger". Again, I'm not saying it is useless or uninteresting or that the science is simple, I'm saying you can see the behavior without knowing the science and still understand it. Then again, what is interesting to one person might not be equally interesting another.
hawski 9y ago
Are there any smartphones that have a rubber coating? Something akin to the Thinkpad lid coating. I use a rubbery case, buy that's something else. That got me to thinking. Why doesn't Lenovo cash on Thinkpad brand with a smartphone line that would be branded as such. It could use the same rubber coating and maybe titanium skeleton or something. Maybe I'm just not aware that they indeed have such a thing.
- mi100hael 9y ago
  Apple made (makes?) a thin, silicone-coated case for the iPhone. It was monumentally annoying. The extra grippiness of the silicone meant that every time I pulled my phone out of my pants pocket, the pocket came with it and turned inside out. It was also hard to put the phone back in my pocket because it would grip the pocket material instead of sliding in. And finally, the silicone was a victim of its own grippiness and wore out rather quickly. I've found a textured case like Magpul makes to be far superior to one with soft rubber.
- zokier 9y ago
  My Moto G (3rd gen or something like that) definitely has slightly rubbery texture, more so than thinkpads I think. So they do exist to some degree. Not aware of current models though.
- dTal 9y ago
  The Xperia Mini Pro and the Xperia X10 Mini Pro (shit naming scheme) both have rubberised backs, very like the Thinkpad lid covering (but grippier). It works very well at making the phone satisfying and comfortable to hold, but the durability sucks and it eventually peels off under regular use.
jaclaz 9y ago
It seems to me that research have learned titling from modern journalism. It is the actual research title and it is clickbaity. >Without a large true contact area made by our hands, it would be nearly impossible to lift a glass or to hold onto a handrail in a transport vehicle. As a side note, the reason why usually you don't drop a glass when gripping it with your hand is largely due -besides friction - to the fact that the glass is usually a truncated cone with the larger base on the upper side, and as well handrails have a suitable outer diameter to be enclosed in the hand and allowing to tight your fingers around it - between 40 and 50 mm. Try holding (in a transport vehicle) onto an 80 or 90 mm handrail (rubber covered) ...
- johnday 9y ago
  Or even just an upside down glass in the comfort of your own house.
losteverything 9y ago
I just saw on a catalog the 20 or 25th anniversary of a certain Bic pen. It was on the cover page I thought it signified some milestone in printing where component pieces combimed with easy logo/name printing changed the logo game Thus, more pens made with plastic (rubbery) grips had to do with manufacturing Now i am enlightened
tomaskafka 9y ago
That's why I dislike iPhone - 5S was last grippable version, since then it's slippery material PLUS slippery shape. Miss my HTC M7 - it had a few milimeters larger back than front, and well defined edge, it was the last phone that you could hold really comfortably and safely even without the case.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  iPhone SE is just as grippable as the 5S, it's the same design but 2.5 years newer. Unless something changed in the aluminum finish, but it feels fine to me. (Don't have a 5S for comparison)

31 points by lainon 9y ago

TLDR from the article: > Because the keratin softens when it is hydrated by the moisture secreted from the sweat pores, it requires many seconds for the contact area to increase to the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber.

zitterbewegung 9y ago
The most interesting thing from the bottom of the abstract. This mechanism might be used by our tactile sense to identify materials and has implications for the design of tactile displays.
daxorid 9y ago
This is interesting, yes, but it seems immediately ... odd to me. Do we use rubber to manufacture tires because the frictional coefficient between rubber and asphalt is established rapidly due to asphalt sweating? No, it's because the frictional coefficient is already rather high to begin with. Is this not the case with rubber-keratin as well? Why involve sweat when static friction is sufficiently explanatory?
- city41 9y ago
  They are talking about non rubbery surfaces > When encountering a smooth, stiff, and impermeable surface, such as polished metal or glass, the actual contact area is initially small as is the friction. Because the keratin softens when it is hydrated by the moisture secreted from the sweat pores, it requires many seconds for the contact area to increase to the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    As compared to rubbery ones. > the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber
- tgb 9y ago
  The role of sweat appears to be to make the keratin in the finger softer and allowing more of it to contact the hard surface. This is unnecessary when contacting a rubber surface since the rubber surface is already soft. I.e. rubber makes the sweating unnecessary and hence works even against hard surfaces like non-sweaty keratin or asphalt.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tomc1985 9y ago

Because it sucks to hold a plastic pen slipping around in sweaty hands?

_h_o_d_ 9y ago
Terrible title problems. To save time, here's the outline given when you click on the link: TL-DR: 'Why does gripping a pen, tool, or handle feel more secure when it is coated with a rubbery material? The keratin of the skin outer layer is stiff and rough at a small scale. When encountering a smooth, stiff, and impermeable surface, such as polished metal or glass, the actual contact area is initially small as is the friction. Because the keratin softens when it is hydrated by the moisture secreted from the sweat pores, it requires many seconds for the contact area to increase to the value reached almost instantaneously with a soft material, such as a rubber. This mechanism might be used by our tactile sense to identify materials and has implications for the design of tactile displays. '

qwerty_asdf 9y ago

Most commodity ballpoint pens didn't have rubbery grips prior to the mid 1990's. I remember back-to-school shopping at the end of one summer, and most of the bags of pens were upgraded to have built-in grips. Prior to that, you'd buy triangular slip-on sleeves separately, if you wanted additional gripping traction. It was a trend that started, and progressed like many other marketing arms races. One stand-out product emerged and out sold the normal offerings, due to novelty, and all other imitators jumped on the band wagon to cash in on that novelty.

katastic 9y ago
>triangular slip-on sleeves separately As someone who grew up in the 90's, I can almost guarantee you would get the crap beat out of them for walking into school with something like that. Thank goodness they're integrated into the pen now!
- tpeo 9y ago
  Being bullied for this? Really?
  - kleer001 9y ago
    It's a pecking order instinct. I'm sure even lobsters do it. The algorithm goes like this: find someone weaker than you, focus on any difference however small or imaginary, initiate pecking, preserve your place in the hierarchy.
    - christoph 9y ago
      So true. My nephew has a small mole on his nose. I never notice it, nobody in my immediate family notices it, but he gets bullied at school over it, to the point he wants it surgically removed. He’s six.
      - apk-d 9y ago
        Worst thing is, the bullies don't care about it either. They just need an excuse. It's hard to believe how ruthless kids can be to each other. School was forever ago, but I still don't miss it.

vaishaksuresh 9y ago

How is this a thing that needs explaining?

zaroth 9y ago
Try actually reading the paper. The analysis is actually quite compelling.
- vaishaksuresh 9y ago
  I did read the paper and I'm not saying the analysis isn't compelling. I'm saying it is obvious and does not need a paper to be explained.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    The process by which human fingers gives rise to stable contacts with smooth, hard objects is surprisingly slow. Using high-resolution imaging, we found that, when pressed against glass, the actual contact made by finger pad ridges evolved over time following a first-order kinetics relationship. This evolution was the result of a two-stage coalescence process of microscopic junctions made between the keratin of the stratum corneum of the skin and the glass surface. This process was driven by the secretion of moisture from the sweat glands, since increased hydration in stratum corneum causes it to become softer. Saturation was typically reached within 20 s of loading the contact, regardless of the initial moisture state of the finger and of the normal force applied. So, nothing to see here, totally obvious?
    - vaishaksuresh 9y ago
      Many words to say "Moist fingers grips smooth,hard objects better than dry finger". Again, I'm not saying it is useless or uninteresting or that the science is simple, I'm saying you can see the behavior without knowing the science and still understand it. Then again, what is interesting to one person might not be equally interesting another.

hawski 9y ago

Are there any smartphones that have a rubber coating? Something akin to the Thinkpad lid coating. I use a rubbery case, buy that's something else. That got me to thinking. Why doesn't Lenovo cash on Thinkpad brand with a smartphone line that would be branded as such. It could use the same rubber coating and maybe titanium skeleton or something. Maybe I'm just not aware that they indeed have such a thing.

mi100hael 9y ago
Apple made (makes?) a thin, silicone-coated case for the iPhone. It was monumentally annoying. The extra grippiness of the silicone meant that every time I pulled my phone out of my pants pocket, the pocket came with it and turned inside out. It was also hard to put the phone back in my pocket because it would grip the pocket material instead of sliding in. And finally, the silicone was a victim of its own grippiness and wore out rather quickly. I've found a textured case like Magpul makes to be far superior to one with soft rubber.
zokier 9y ago
My Moto G (3rd gen or something like that) definitely has slightly rubbery texture, more so than thinkpads I think. So they do exist to some degree. Not aware of current models though.
dTal 9y ago
The Xperia Mini Pro and the Xperia X10 Mini Pro (shit naming scheme) both have rubberised backs, very like the Thinkpad lid covering (but grippier). It works very well at making the phone satisfying and comfortable to hold, but the durability sucks and it eventually peels off under regular use.

jaclaz 9y ago

It seems to me that research have learned titling from modern journalism. It is the actual research title and it is clickbaity. >Without a large true contact area made by our hands, it would be nearly impossible to lift a glass or to hold onto a handrail in a transport vehicle. As a side note, the reason why usually you don't drop a glass when gripping it with your hand is largely due -besides friction - to the fact that the glass is usually a truncated cone with the larger base on the upper side, and as well handrails have a suitable outer diameter to be enclosed in the hand and allowing to tight your fingers around it - between 40 and 50 mm. Try holding (in a transport vehicle) onto an 80 or 90 mm handrail (rubber covered) ...

johnday 9y ago
Or even just an upside down glass in the comfort of your own house.

losteverything 9y ago

I just saw on a catalog the 20 or 25th anniversary of a certain Bic pen. It was on the cover page I thought it signified some milestone in printing where component pieces combimed with easy logo/name printing changed the logo game Thus, more pens made with plastic (rubbery) grips had to do with manufacturing Now i am enlightened

tomaskafka 9y ago

That's why I dislike iPhone - 5S was last grippable version, since then it's slippery material PLUS slippery shape. Miss my HTC M7 - it had a few milimeters larger back than front, and well defined edge, it was the last phone that you could hold really comfortably and safely even without the case.

wlesieutre 9y ago
iPhone SE is just as grippable as the 5S, it's the same design but 2.5 years newer. Unless something changed in the aluminum finish, but it feels fine to me. (Don't have a 5S for comparison)