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The amount of people I know with degrees who work in retail, or something completely unrelated is staggering. From my observations, I'd guess "underemployment"

The amount of people I know with degrees who work in retail, or something completely unrelated is staggering. From my observations, I'd guess "underemployment" is the biggest contributor to the late payments. This is just another example of why I urge any young people I know (high school age) to think long and hard before choosing to go to a 4 year college. When I graduated high school in 99', we were primed to think "college degree == good job". Of course, that is anything but the truth. And, it only serves to put someone in serious debt without any guarantees. Hands on technical jobs like electrician, plumber, welder, are many times more lucrative than some bullshit business degree. A friend of mine's son is 22 or 23, and making a hell of a living welding. Granted, he's exceptional at it. But, that doesn't change the fact that his 2-year trade school investment was a good one. Or, teach yourself a skill. Like lots of us on here, I'm a self taught programmer. It took years of doing small projects in the evenings, but I make a living from it now with $0 in student loan debt.

gbacon 9y ago
The key is a marketable college degree. In fields such as aerospace and defense where the credential is the key to open the door, get the credential as cheaply as possible. Do a couple of years at a community college and then finish at a state school. Name-brand degrees bring no extra value. Oh yeah, and get your master’s while you’re still in the zone. The idea that trade school somehow is lower tier or oppressive is a staggering disservice. Just like every college-bound high schooler is not med school material, not every high schooler is college material. Put a wrench or saw or blowtorch in the hands of a doctor or engineer, and crummy is the likely result. Skilled trades are an honorable, respectable way to earn a good living. Forcing people into tracks for their own supposed good but where they feel hopeless is horrible social engineering.
- KekDemaga 9y ago
  Not only what you said, trades can also lead you down a path of owning your own business. If that is the direction you go often you can exceed the incomes of the college educated quite handily.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    Great point, but for some reason union-protected professional educators who hold degrees from accredited institutions and who control state education monopolies are hostile to this worldview and deride it as “demeaning.”
- bpicolo 9y ago
  There are plenty of fields where name-brand degrees mean a crap ton starting out, e.g. finance, law.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    In fact, the conventional wisdom these days seems increasingly to be that you should go to a top-tier law school or just not bother. And that seems to be becoming fairly common advice for MBAs as well, although that's not as cut and tried because MBAs cover a wider range of programs than law degrees do.
  - cableshaft 9y ago
    Law is not a guaranteed payout. The competition is incredible, and if you don't get into those firms, there's a big drop off in what you're likely getting paid. $30k a year jobs for those that didn't make it into the prestigious firms (or start their own practice) is fairly common.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    Granted. My comment was in the context of aerospace and defense.
  - jononor 9y ago
    Those are on the higher end of risk (and upside potential). Would only do it if some else foots the bill, eg parents.
alistairSH 9y ago
think long and hard before choosing to go to a 4 year college A college degree is still worth a considerable bump in lifetime earnings.[1] Perhaps you should revise your advice to "think long and hard before choosing to go to an expensive 4 year college" or "consider spending the first two years of college at a local community college." 1 - https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/lifetime-earnings-education-level https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table...
- brewdad 9y ago
  One question I have regarding spending the first 2 years in a CC is how does this impact your ability to get admitted to a 4-year school later on, particularly a top-tier (say top 50) university? Are these schools less likely to admit students who will only spend a couple of years there vs students entering straight out of high school, all other things being equal? I don't know the answer, but given my son is on a track to gain admission to a top university, I would hate to give advice that could hurt him in the long run.
  - tssva 9y ago
    My state has multiple public universities which regularly appear on top 50 lists and for many in demand fields in the top 5 or 10. The CC systems have agreements with the state public universities guaranteeing admission after 2 years attending CC. There are of course requirements that must be met during the 2 years. They vary from school to school, so you do need to target a specific school while attending CC. These requirements generally involve minimum GPA, credit hours earned and required courses. Since the requirements can vary so greatly between schools many of the CCs have counselors dedicated to working with students to make sure they meet the requirements of the specific 4 year school they would like to attend. The universities were required to enter these agreements by state law. In an attempt to bring in more out of state tuition dollars some have started to voluntarily enter similar agreements with CC systems in other states. Do some research and see if there are similar arrangements between CCs and public universities in your state or with out of state universities.
  - alistairSH 9y ago

gbacon 9y ago

The key is a marketable college degree. In fields such as aerospace and defense where the credential is the key to open the door, get the credential as cheaply as possible. Do a couple of years at a community college and then finish at a state school. Name-brand degrees bring no extra value. Oh yeah, and get your master’s while you’re still in the zone. The idea that trade school somehow is lower tier or oppressive is a staggering disservice. Just like every college-bound high schooler is not med school material, not every high schooler is college material. Put a wrench or saw or blowtorch in the hands of a doctor or engineer, and crummy is the likely result. Skilled trades are an honorable, respectable way to earn a good living. Forcing people into tracks for their own supposed good but where they feel hopeless is horrible social engineering.

KekDemaga 9y ago
Not only what you said, trades can also lead you down a path of owning your own business. If that is the direction you go often you can exceed the incomes of the college educated quite handily.
- gbacon 9y ago
  Great point, but for some reason union-protected professional educators who hold degrees from accredited institutions and who control state education monopolies are hostile to this worldview and deride it as “demeaning.”
bpicolo 9y ago
There are plenty of fields where name-brand degrees mean a crap ton starting out, e.g. finance, law.
- ghaff 9y ago
  In fact, the conventional wisdom these days seems increasingly to be that you should go to a top-tier law school or just not bother. And that seems to be becoming fairly common advice for MBAs as well, although that's not as cut and tried because MBAs cover a wider range of programs than law degrees do.
- cableshaft 9y ago
  Law is not a guaranteed payout. The competition is incredible, and if you don't get into those firms, there's a big drop off in what you're likely getting paid. $30k a year jobs for those that didn't make it into the prestigious firms (or start their own practice) is fairly common.
- gbacon 9y ago
  Granted. My comment was in the context of aerospace and defense.
- jononor 9y ago
  Those are on the higher end of risk (and upside potential). Would only do it if some else foots the bill, eg parents.

alistairSH 9y ago

think long and hard before choosing to go to a 4 year college A college degree is still worth a considerable bump in lifetime earnings.[1] Perhaps you should revise your advice to "think long and hard before choosing to go to an expensive 4 year college" or "consider spending the first two years of college at a local community college." 1 - https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/lifetime-earnings-education-level https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table...

brewdad 9y ago
One question I have regarding spending the first 2 years in a CC is how does this impact your ability to get admitted to a 4-year school later on, particularly a top-tier (say top 50) university? Are these schools less likely to admit students who will only spend a couple of years there vs students entering straight out of high school, all other things being equal? I don't know the answer, but given my son is on a track to gain admission to a top university, I would hate to give advice that could hurt him in the long run.
- tssva 9y ago
  My state has multiple public universities which regularly appear on top 50 lists and for many in demand fields in the top 5 or 10. The CC systems have agreements with the state public universities guaranteeing admission after 2 years attending CC. There are of course requirements that must be met during the 2 years. They vary from school to school, so you do need to target a specific school while attending CC. These requirements generally involve minimum GPA, credit hours earned and required courses. Since the requirements can vary so greatly between schools many of the CCs have counselors dedicated to working with students to make sure they meet the requirements of the specific 4 year school they would like to attend. The universities were required to enter these agreements by state law. In an attempt to bring in more out of state tuition dollars some have started to voluntarily enter similar agreements with CC systems in other states. Do some research and see if there are similar arrangements between CCs and public universities in your state or with out of state universities.
- alistairSH 9y ago