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I agree. I hope they get it all sorted out and start deleting some intermediate docs from the internet. And core is fine and all, for data center usage where wa

I agree. I hope they get it all sorted out and start deleting some intermediate docs from the internet. And core is fine and all, for data center usage where watts matter, and to run in Linux, but as someone writing enterprise solutions, switching operating systems would be a huge waste of effort. I’m happy to run on the framework, but I’m constantly having to battle developer sentiment that we should “be ready to run .NET on Linux” that comes from all the Core propaganda. Rewriting framework and standard libraries — I’m sure that will be nice after a while, but I’ll sit this transitional phase out.

pjmlp 9y ago
Specially irritating is what is still left out of .NET Standard 2.0. Apparently Xamarin.Forms alongside XAML Standard is going to be the UI story for .NET Core, as communicated at .NET Conf 2017 sessions.
- megaman22 9y ago
  WinForms will never die.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    There are people still writing fresh COBOL and RPG code in 2017 as well. I do have an ongoing WinForms project, but only because it integrates with an application that was initially developed for Windows XP. XAML designers, specially Blend, are much more powerful than the WinForms one.
    - cm2187 9y ago
      But the reality is that when I want to create a simple UI to automate a task or visualize something internally, winform is just perfect. None of my users care whether there is a flashy colorful touch friendly UI or a bunch of grey forms. They are all going to run it on crappy workstations running windows 7 anyway. And it's not about the UI, it's about the numbers that it shows.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        XAML designers can be used just like Forms for those purposes. Dropping elements from the toolbox into the form, setting properties and code-behind event handlers. No difference here, there is no need for MVVM over-engineering if the requirements are basic as you say. With the advantage that XAML layouts are much easier to work with than TableLayoutPanel.
  - ygra 9y ago
    WinForms doesn't exist on .NET Core.
mattmanser 9y ago
They're getting more and more opinionated in some of the frameworks too, it's getting quite tiresome in the asp.net field. First it was harping on about pure restful controllers which are nothing but a massive PITA, then I had a dabble in ASP.net Core and they'd changed ConfigurationManager to be Dependency Injected instead of an incredibly simple static object. Yeah it's great improvement to have it nicely typed, but keep it static, I don't want to be DI-ing everything, especially when I'm just throwing together a prototype. I want easy to use, not dogmatic adherence to ideals that gain you absolutely nothing but a confusing mental model in something like semi-permanent config.
- cm2187 9y ago
  Opinionated and changing opinion frequently... First we had webforms, then rest api, then asp.net mvc, then asp.net core mvc and now razor pages to bring back webforms...
  - mattmanser 9y ago
    With a couple of dabbles in OData. ODataControllers are some of the most painfully bad things I have ever had the displeasure of programming with, I'm migrating our code bade back over to using API controllers with the semi-broken OData plugins rather than use them. Admittedly part of that is because OData is great for plugging into grids like datatables for jquery or kendo grid, but otherwise incredibly over-complicated. It sometimes feels as if they can't make their mind up about anything, and yet invest heavily in the latest fad that disappears a year later. Surprised they've not released an update yet that forces everyone to use yarn instead of nuget.
  - Const-me 9y ago
    Not that frequently. Web forms are from 2002. It‘s ancient by today’s standard, much older than e.g. facebook or youtube.

pjmlp 9y ago

Specially irritating is what is still left out of .NET Standard 2.0. Apparently Xamarin.Forms alongside XAML Standard is going to be the UI story for .NET Core, as communicated at .NET Conf 2017 sessions.

megaman22 9y ago
WinForms will never die.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  There are people still writing fresh COBOL and RPG code in 2017 as well. I do have an ongoing WinForms project, but only because it integrates with an application that was initially developed for Windows XP. XAML designers, specially Blend, are much more powerful than the WinForms one.
  - cm2187 9y ago
    But the reality is that when I want to create a simple UI to automate a task or visualize something internally, winform is just perfect. None of my users care whether there is a flashy colorful touch friendly UI or a bunch of grey forms. They are all going to run it on crappy workstations running windows 7 anyway. And it's not about the UI, it's about the numbers that it shows.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      XAML designers can be used just like Forms for those purposes. Dropping elements from the toolbox into the form, setting properties and code-behind event handlers. No difference here, there is no need for MVVM over-engineering if the requirements are basic as you say. With the advantage that XAML layouts are much easier to work with than TableLayoutPanel.
- ygra 9y ago
  WinForms doesn't exist on .NET Core.

mattmanser 9y ago

They're getting more and more opinionated in some of the frameworks too, it's getting quite tiresome in the asp.net field. First it was harping on about pure restful controllers which are nothing but a massive PITA, then I had a dabble in ASP.net Core and they'd changed ConfigurationManager to be Dependency Injected instead of an incredibly simple static object. Yeah it's great improvement to have it nicely typed, but keep it static, I don't want to be DI-ing everything, especially when I'm just throwing together a prototype. I want easy to use, not dogmatic adherence to ideals that gain you absolutely nothing but a confusing mental model in something like semi-permanent config.

cm2187 9y ago
Opinionated and changing opinion frequently... First we had webforms, then rest api, then asp.net mvc, then asp.net core mvc and now razor pages to bring back webforms...
- mattmanser 9y ago
  With a couple of dabbles in OData. ODataControllers are some of the most painfully bad things I have ever had the displeasure of programming with, I'm migrating our code bade back over to using API controllers with the semi-broken OData plugins rather than use them. Admittedly part of that is because OData is great for plugging into grids like datatables for jquery or kendo grid, but otherwise incredibly over-complicated. It sometimes feels as if they can't make their mind up about anything, and yet invest heavily in the latest fad that disappears a year later. Surprised they've not released an update yet that forces everyone to use yarn instead of nuget.
- Const-me 9y ago
  Not that frequently. Web forms are from 2002. It‘s ancient by today’s standard, much older than e.g. facebook or youtube.