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It pains me to think that I'm going to have to take up programming again. I don't like it. I'm not good at it. But, it's the only reliable way I have of frustra

by KGIII 9y ago

It pains me to think that I'm going to have to take up programming again. I don't like it. I'm not good at it. But, it's the only reliable way I have of frustrating myself to the point of learning on a computer. What's wrong with an options menu and then an advanced options menu? People are down voting my comments that suggest keeping options in place in applications - on Hacker News. I don't even know what to think anymore. I miss my options menus. I miss the vast amounts of configuration choices. What I really miss is learning what all those options did. There is still plenty to learn, I miss that. I miss tweaking, configuring, and getting things just right. I miss the little things you could do to tie in a couple of apps and make them do things they weren't designed for. I miss the finding the undocumented settings that you only found when you hand edited config files. They inspired me to learn more. They kept things fresh. They made each person's install unique (which I admit is generally a bad idea in a corporate setting). When you design for the lowest common denominator, you get uninteresting, uninspiring, uncreative, inexpressive, bland consistency. We've gone from a multitude of choices to bland bowls of oatmeal. If need be, put the options behind an 'advanced options' radio button and emulate VLC. I'm not kidding when I point to VLC as being close to ideal. And no, I am not a curmudgeon. Computers and applications weren't better back in the day. In fact, they largely sucked. That's not because they had options, however. That's because they were slow and had access to so much less information. The options menu had nothing to do with it. I don't want to bring back old computers. I just want my options menu back, and populated with optional goodness. Do you use Windows? I haven't used it in years. However, there used to be a program called x-teq setup. It is now defunct, but that might have been the greatest Windows program ever made. It had a horrible interface, a UX was not even thought of, the UI was probably concocted while drunk, and it was an absolute security nightmare. But, you could tweak most any part of your OS with it. It's that sort of mentality that makes me want my options back.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
You have my upvotes on all those comments. I'm with you on this. Thing is, lots of people on HN have internalized the "dumb UX FTW" principle - which is entirely understandable from the business point of view, where you care primarily about your sales, not about the value your users derive from your product - and by criticizing this point of view, you're implicitly criticizing their jobs or products. Hence the downvotes. (In particular, a lot of developers despise options, because they increase "costs of support" - i.e. there are many more things that can break when you start mindlessly piling up new features.) But criticize this trend we must, and loudly, because at large it is circular reasoning. Users want dumb software because they choose it, and they choose it because that's all that is available to choose from. Computers are a tool that could give unprecedenced powers to individuals. Powers to learn and solve their individual problems themselves. And the software market is seriously, and increasingly, underserving individuals. It is understandable - companies prefer you to pay them instead of solving your problems yourself. But "what sells best right-fucking-now" is not the same as "what's the right thing to do".
- KGIII 9y ago
  If it is any indication, I'm the same KGIII that has been online since, well, before it was world wide. Never have I made a comment, or not made one, based on possible votes. At least not that I can recall, I used to drink and post. So, I may have, I just don't remember it. So, I mean everything I say. I have moderated my own posts to fit site guidelines, but I say what I have to say, bugger the votes. So... I agree, computers are tools to empower individuals in ways they've never been able to achieve in all of prior history, at lest on a mass scale. To do so, they need to be able to get maximum usage from their devices. They need control of their data and their systems. Sure, they might make a few bucks writing blog posts, but the real power is in creation and, doing so requires skill and options. This dumbing down of devices is a disincentive to learn. Dumb devices beget dumb users. Dumb users don't create, they consume. Sure, some exceptions exist, but this is generally true. Dumb users are subservient to dumb devices. So, along with my selfish goal of wanting to have more control over my devices, I guess there's an altruistic reason. Maybe it really is time for a Bring Back The Buttons campaign? I could probably write a few essays on the subject. From the 90s until about the mid 2000s, kids to me, there was a whole generation that actually understood computers, beyond just being able to open Office. They could put them together, understood ECC and RAM, built their own cooling systems, programmed what they needed, and devoured open source like it was a new religion. Then... Well, then came the smartphone. I don't even regularly use my smartphone. I probably should. Maybe it will help me understand the next generation's viewpoints? I don't know... We did pretty well for a while. People were even educating themselves. They created new and wonderful things. I think I'll try formalizing this stuff into an essay and linking to it in a few days. Right now, it's rambling. It is something I've pondered for a while. There's more to ponder and try to make sense of. This is meandering a bit too far off topic for the thread. Bring back our options and presences. Bring back our documentation. Encourage, no demand, people learn. You have to learn to use every other tool, a computer is no different. And yes, yes it is a tool. Even the network is a tool, a tool to facilitate exchanging information. Man, I so hate the idea of having to write software. I really hate programming. I'll have to come up with a more practical example than VLC.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    RE the votes, I don't understand now if you're writing in general or in response to my comment, but if it's the latter - all I meant is that I read what you wrote in the whole thread and I generally agree with it (hence you have my upvotes), and to provide a possible reason why those comments were so downvoted at some point today. -- > Then... Well, then came the smartphone. I don't even regularly use my smartphone. I probably should. Maybe it will help me understand the next generation's viewpoints? It didn't help me. Anyway, if you'll get a smartphone, you'll learn that: - it generally solves most of your needs for unsophisticated communication with people - it sucks when you try to do anything creative with it - it has abysmal interoperability between applications - and beyond that, it goes out of its way to hide the filesystem from you, and even the clipboard barely works Both of that is because it's bound by the features of lowest-common-denominator applications written by competing vendors. -- > I don't know... We did pretty well for a while. People were even educating themselves. They created new and wonderful things. Of course they did. Because if you tell people that a) they can make things they want to make with a computer, but b) they have to spend a little time learning and figuring it out (and c), here are some resources to get you started), people will figure it out. Some of the complexity just is essential, you can't remove it without losing the capabilities of the tool. > I think I'll try formalizing this stuff into an essay and linking to it in a few days. Right now, it's rambling. > Man, I so hate the idea of having to write software. I really hate programming. I'll have to come up with a more practical example than VLC. Please do write it down and share it. And don't worry about writing software (unless you just want to have your dream tools made ASAP) - just provide a clean and detailed description of what you seek. There's plenty of people here who like writing code, and will happily experiment with new paths. Oh, and VLC is a fine example. It's a popular and powerful piece of software.

by KGIII 9y ago

TeMPOraL 9y ago

You have my upvotes on all those comments. I'm with you on this. Thing is, lots of people on HN have internalized the "dumb UX FTW" principle - which is entirely understandable from the business point of view, where you care primarily about your sales, not about the value your users derive from your product - and by criticizing this point of view, you're implicitly criticizing their jobs or products. Hence the downvotes. (In particular, a lot of developers despise options, because they increase "costs of support" - i.e. there are many more things that can break when you start mindlessly piling up new features.) But criticize this trend we must, and loudly, because at large it is circular reasoning. Users want dumb software because they choose it, and they choose it because that's all that is available to choose from. Computers are a tool that could give unprecedenced powers to individuals. Powers to learn and solve their individual problems themselves. And the software market is seriously, and increasingly, underserving individuals. It is understandable - companies prefer you to pay them instead of solving your problems yourself. But "what sells best right-fucking-now" is not the same as "what's the right thing to do".

KGIII 9y ago
If it is any indication, I'm the same KGIII that has been online since, well, before it was world wide. Never have I made a comment, or not made one, based on possible votes. At least not that I can recall, I used to drink and post. So, I may have, I just don't remember it. So, I mean everything I say. I have moderated my own posts to fit site guidelines, but I say what I have to say, bugger the votes. So... I agree, computers are tools to empower individuals in ways they've never been able to achieve in all of prior history, at lest on a mass scale. To do so, they need to be able to get maximum usage from their devices. They need control of their data and their systems. Sure, they might make a few bucks writing blog posts, but the real power is in creation and, doing so requires skill and options. This dumbing down of devices is a disincentive to learn. Dumb devices beget dumb users. Dumb users don't create, they consume. Sure, some exceptions exist, but this is generally true. Dumb users are subservient to dumb devices. So, along with my selfish goal of wanting to have more control over my devices, I guess there's an altruistic reason. Maybe it really is time for a Bring Back The Buttons campaign? I could probably write a few essays on the subject. From the 90s until about the mid 2000s, kids to me, there was a whole generation that actually understood computers, beyond just being able to open Office. They could put them together, understood ECC and RAM, built their own cooling systems, programmed what they needed, and devoured open source like it was a new religion. Then... Well, then came the smartphone. I don't even regularly use my smartphone. I probably should. Maybe it will help me understand the next generation's viewpoints? I don't know... We did pretty well for a while. People were even educating themselves. They created new and wonderful things. I think I'll try formalizing this stuff into an essay and linking to it in a few days. Right now, it's rambling. It is something I've pondered for a while. There's more to ponder and try to make sense of. This is meandering a bit too far off topic for the thread. Bring back our options and presences. Bring back our documentation. Encourage, no demand, people learn. You have to learn to use every other tool, a computer is no different. And yes, yes it is a tool. Even the network is a tool, a tool to facilitate exchanging information. Man, I so hate the idea of having to write software. I really hate programming. I'll have to come up with a more practical example than VLC.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  RE the votes, I don't understand now if you're writing in general or in response to my comment, but if it's the latter - all I meant is that I read what you wrote in the whole thread and I generally agree with it (hence you have my upvotes), and to provide a possible reason why those comments were so downvoted at some point today. -- > Then... Well, then came the smartphone. I don't even regularly use my smartphone. I probably should. Maybe it will help me understand the next generation's viewpoints? It didn't help me. Anyway, if you'll get a smartphone, you'll learn that: - it generally solves most of your needs for unsophisticated communication with people - it sucks when you try to do anything creative with it - it has abysmal interoperability between applications - and beyond that, it goes out of its way to hide the filesystem from you, and even the clipboard barely works Both of that is because it's bound by the features of lowest-common-denominator applications written by competing vendors. -- > I don't know... We did pretty well for a while. People were even educating themselves. They created new and wonderful things. Of course they did. Because if you tell people that a) they can make things they want to make with a computer, but b) they have to spend a little time learning and figuring it out (and c), here are some resources to get you started), people will figure it out. Some of the complexity just is essential, you can't remove it without losing the capabilities of the tool. > I think I'll try formalizing this stuff into an essay and linking to it in a few days. Right now, it's rambling. > Man, I so hate the idea of having to write software. I really hate programming. I'll have to come up with a more practical example than VLC. Please do write it down and share it. And don't worry about writing software (unless you just want to have your dream tools made ASAP) - just provide a clean and detailed description of what you seek. There's plenty of people here who like writing code, and will happily experiment with new paths. Oh, and VLC is a fine example. It's a popular and powerful piece of software.