4 ms·

I agree: there are no rules in a language. The baseline is to try to produce something that can be understood by your public, so try to stick to whatever conve

by ggus 9y ago

I agree: there are no rules in a language. The baseline is to try to produce something that can be understood by your public, so try to stick to whatever convention they are used to, or come up with new ways that they can make a sense of. But I won't even call that a "rule".

mh-cx 9y ago
> I agree: there are no rules in a language. Really? Isn't that a bit broad? It may be half true for some languages but definitely not for all. For example in Germany we have the "Der Duden" which is not only a dictionary that defines the correct spelling of words but also contains a huge set of grammatical rules. It's still the de-facto standard for correct language in German. And even in english you'd probably agree that there are some rules, e.g. when it comes to the correct spelling of words.
- pluma 9y ago
  The Duden doesn't define correct spelling, it merely documents it. It's decidedly not a prescriptive work. What you're likely thinking of is the German orthography rules defined by the Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung and in turn strongly influenced by actual practice rather than just dogma -- the most recent revisions are very forgiving with regard to acceptable variations. Linguists on the other hand have given up on prescriptivism decades ago. Scientific linguistics are entirely descriptivist, studying how language is used rather than prescribing how it ought to be used.
  - bmn__ 9y ago
    One particularly nasty hold-out of minority prescriptivists among those lexicographers was the renouncement of capital sharp s. It took about a good century to force them to not deny reality anymore.
KGIII 9y ago
The goal of communication is to accurately exchange information. Doing so accurately requires both parties adhering to rules they have previously agreed on. If you don't want to accurately exchange information, that is a choice you can make. However, it should come as no surprise when you find people ignoring your attempt to contribute. I don't think it needs to be exact, but an effort to express things accurately should be made. If I say, "Fish garbanzo bean flunky jellybean!" It is quite reasonable for you to say, "No, that isn't the name of an ocean." If I continue doing so, then I would expect to be excluded from the conversation.

by ggus 9y ago

mh-cx 9y ago

> I agree: there are no rules in a language. Really? Isn't that a bit broad? It may be half true for some languages but definitely not for all. For example in Germany we have the "Der Duden" which is not only a dictionary that defines the correct spelling of words but also contains a huge set of grammatical rules. It's still the de-facto standard for correct language in German. And even in english you'd probably agree that there are some rules, e.g. when it comes to the correct spelling of words.

pluma 9y ago
The Duden doesn't define correct spelling, it merely documents it. It's decidedly not a prescriptive work. What you're likely thinking of is the German orthography rules defined by the Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung and in turn strongly influenced by actual practice rather than just dogma -- the most recent revisions are very forgiving with regard to acceptable variations. Linguists on the other hand have given up on prescriptivism decades ago. Scientific linguistics are entirely descriptivist, studying how language is used rather than prescribing how it ought to be used.
- bmn__ 9y ago
  One particularly nasty hold-out of minority prescriptivists among those lexicographers was the renouncement of capital sharp s. It took about a good century to force them to not deny reality anymore.

KGIII 9y ago

The goal of communication is to accurately exchange information. Doing so accurately requires both parties adhering to rules they have previously agreed on. If you don't want to accurately exchange information, that is a choice you can make. However, it should come as no surprise when you find people ignoring your attempt to contribute. I don't think it needs to be exact, but an effort to express things accurately should be made. If I say, "Fish garbanzo bean flunky jellybean!" It is quite reasonable for you to say, "No, that isn't the name of an ocean." If I continue doing so, then I would expect to be excluded from the conversation.