6 ms·

It would be interesting to see how a first world country which depends far more heavily on the internet would cope with a shutdown.

by jackdh 9y ago

Synaesthesia 9y ago
Would be a brave government that would try that! Edit: I’m reminded of the Imperial Russian government (pre-revolution) banning vodka which had the dual effect of reducing tax income and increasing their unpopularity.
- notahacker 9y ago
  Brave? It would have to be a desperate government pretty much anywhere in the world. When Arab Spring kicked off, the Egyptian government responded to protests by shutting down the internet under the apparent delusion that lack of coverage and coordination would mean the protests didn't amount to much, and loss of internet definitely wouldn't be taken as a sign something much bigger than usual was going on. It was the moment I thought they were finished. (c.f. Erdogan who survived an attempted coup by getting his supporters to flood social media with his messages after losing control of state TV) I don't think the Togo government - a dynasty in power for half a century - will be around for much longer either.
StudentStuff 9y ago
In some countries like Sweden, it would wreck the economy. The push towards a cashless society in Sweden means few ATMs, and the majority of banks not even having any cash on hand. For a country like the United States, where electronic payments make up around half of the total commerce volume, it would be painful, some economic carnage would be wraught, but business would still keep going. The upper-middle class and upper class would be the most affected, as most in that section of society don't keep cash on hand. Comparatively, the lower class which is mostly disenfranchised from the banking system would fare okay with some cash on hand, and those on EBT & WIC would incur an inconvenience as retailers had to call the state for voice auths rather than processing those transactions via a terminal.
- number6 9y ago
  > Business would still keep going I was thinking about Industries. Think "just in time" and SAP. Sure you could call but what about VoIP.
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    The largest chains would suffer the most. They don't train their staff on how to handle outages, and most are centrally managed, soviet esque command companies, with local store managers & staff not having the skills to price or order inventory. Some chains don't let anyone at the store level do pricing or promotions at all.
- mseebach 9y ago
  I think you're underestimating just how reliant all but the most trivial firms are on reliable communications for even basic operations, and just how many of those communications touch the internet at some level. Sibling comment mentions "just in time" supply chains, even "once a month" supply chains would collapse because nobody would know what to load in the trucks, and nobody would know which drivers were supposed to go where. I would not assume that government benefits payments would work unaffected, and especially not that you could "call the state for voice auths" (that sounds like something that involves VOIP and an outsourced datacenter). Ironically, the big banks and credit card clearing houses and the electronic payments they facilitate would probably be among the least affected, because they still largely run on in-house mainframes and dedicated lines. Assuming that the POTS telephone network still work, the last generation of credit card terminals (dial-up) might actually still work.
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    Assuming just the internet and SMS/MMS were disabled, most smaller companies would fall back to calling and faxing eachother. Esp. among wholesalers, faxing is still very popular. With regard to voice auths, I doubt the state would have their hotline go down, rarely do they use the public internet to backhaul calls. Most credit card processing is over IP. Chains like Kroger (and their 200+ subsidiaries), Walmart, etc would not be able to process cards. A small double digit segment of small businesses would fail over to processing over phone, but most Verifone and FD terminals have dial disabled.
pjc50 9y ago
Around the 2011 London riots there were calls from senior politicians to temporarily "shutdown" Twitter and Blackberry Messenger. I can definitely see that happening again in a political unrest situation. In fact, the Catalan domain registry is currently occupied by Spanish police; keep an eye out for a wider shutdown of social media there as 1 October approaches. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14442203 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14442203
- chillydawg 9y ago
  I don't think you'd get away with it in the EU, to be honest.
  - OoooooooO 9y ago
    Wait till 2019 when the UK is no in the EU anymore /s.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    Why do you think the conservative party wants to leave the EU? /s (Seriously, there are lots of signs that the UK government, especially the Home Office, is not happy with external constraints on its arbitary power)

It would be interesting to see how a first world country which depends far more heavily on the internet would cope with a shutdown.

by jackdh 9y ago

It would be interesting to see how a first world country which depends far more heavily on the internet would cope with a shutdown.

Synaesthesia 9y ago

Would be a brave government that would try that! Edit: I’m reminded of the Imperial Russian government (pre-revolution) banning vodka which had the dual effect of reducing tax income and increasing their unpopularity.

notahacker 9y ago
Brave? It would have to be a desperate government pretty much anywhere in the world. When Arab Spring kicked off, the Egyptian government responded to protests by shutting down the internet under the apparent delusion that lack of coverage and coordination would mean the protests didn't amount to much, and loss of internet definitely wouldn't be taken as a sign something much bigger than usual was going on. It was the moment I thought they were finished. (c.f. Erdogan who survived an attempted coup by getting his supporters to flood social media with his messages after losing control of state TV) I don't think the Togo government - a dynasty in power for half a century - will be around for much longer either.

StudentStuff 9y ago

In some countries like Sweden, it would wreck the economy. The push towards a cashless society in Sweden means few ATMs, and the majority of banks not even having any cash on hand. For a country like the United States, where electronic payments make up around half of the total commerce volume, it would be painful, some economic carnage would be wraught, but business would still keep going. The upper-middle class and upper class would be the most affected, as most in that section of society don't keep cash on hand. Comparatively, the lower class which is mostly disenfranchised from the banking system would fare okay with some cash on hand, and those on EBT & WIC would incur an inconvenience as retailers had to call the state for voice auths rather than processing those transactions via a terminal.

number6 9y ago
> Business would still keep going I was thinking about Industries. Think "just in time" and SAP. Sure you could call but what about VoIP.
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  The largest chains would suffer the most. They don't train their staff on how to handle outages, and most are centrally managed, soviet esque command companies, with local store managers & staff not having the skills to price or order inventory. Some chains don't let anyone at the store level do pricing or promotions at all.
mseebach 9y ago
I think you're underestimating just how reliant all but the most trivial firms are on reliable communications for even basic operations, and just how many of those communications touch the internet at some level. Sibling comment mentions "just in time" supply chains, even "once a month" supply chains would collapse because nobody would know what to load in the trucks, and nobody would know which drivers were supposed to go where. I would not assume that government benefits payments would work unaffected, and especially not that you could "call the state for voice auths" (that sounds like something that involves VOIP and an outsourced datacenter). Ironically, the big banks and credit card clearing houses and the electronic payments they facilitate would probably be among the least affected, because they still largely run on in-house mainframes and dedicated lines. Assuming that the POTS telephone network still work, the last generation of credit card terminals (dial-up) might actually still work.
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  Assuming just the internet and SMS/MMS were disabled, most smaller companies would fall back to calling and faxing eachother. Esp. among wholesalers, faxing is still very popular. With regard to voice auths, I doubt the state would have their hotline go down, rarely do they use the public internet to backhaul calls. Most credit card processing is over IP. Chains like Kroger (and their 200+ subsidiaries), Walmart, etc would not be able to process cards. A small double digit segment of small businesses would fail over to processing over phone, but most Verifone and FD terminals have dial disabled.

pjc50 9y ago

Around the 2011 London riots there were calls from senior politicians to temporarily "shutdown" Twitter and Blackberry Messenger. I can definitely see that happening again in a political unrest situation. In fact, the Catalan domain registry is currently occupied by Spanish police; keep an eye out for a wider shutdown of social media there as 1 October approaches. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14442203 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14442203

chillydawg 9y ago
I don't think you'd get away with it in the EU, to be honest.
- OoooooooO 9y ago
  Wait till 2019 when the UK is no in the EU anymore /s.
- pjc50 9y ago
  Why do you think the conservative party wants to leave the EU? /s (Seriously, there are lots of signs that the UK government, especially the Home Office, is not happy with external constraints on its arbitary power)