4 ms·

I’m curious: which policies?

kbenson 9y ago
App store policies mostly, such no browser engine except Safari, no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? It was for quite a while), etc. There are policies that empower the user, such as making applications subscribe to specific security permission sets and notifying the user what those are, and there are policies that restrict the user, such as only allowing signed applications delivered through their own app store. To my mind, Apple is much more willing to restrict their users for what they see as their own good, as well as for Apple's profit. Android isn't perfect in this regard either, but it's better (at least for a lot of brands, which allow third party applications if you jump through the right hoops).
- ryanobjc 9y ago
  The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS - Google Maps, Waze on iOS (and others) Restrictions that empower users on iOS ultimately restrict developers. That is an essential power balance "problem". Which side one prefers sure says a lot about that person ;-)
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS On iOS, any "third-party" browser is just a wrapper around Apple's rendering engine.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      Opera gets around this by doing the rendering on their server and pushing the results to the app. This also enables them to do things like a VPN without additional software and image/page compression being done server-side, instead of using the Safari engine (blink or webkit?). At least that is now it was very recently. As in, within the past year. I'm not sure if it has changed since. In May, they announced they were slowing development down. I haven't followed up with that.
      - pgeorgi 9y ago
        While commendable that Opera achieved this (although Opera Mini isn't exactly new), it's still a gross hack. And when it comes to privacy, moving the outer half (network, rendering, input handling) of your browser to the cloud is a disaster.
- lloydde 9y ago
  > no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? Not App Store policy, but can’t change the app handling the functionality at least for the main one I care about Maps.
- newscracker 9y ago
  In my view, Apple has been slow to make iOS more flexible and less restrictive. I'm hoping that some of the above limitations would be removed in some way in another few years. Allowing a third party app to be set as default for some function could be done right now, but Apple doesn't seem to think it has any incentive to do so. I'm not expecting that change anytime soon, or ever. Some other changes will be done in a methodical way without compromising on the app sandbox and other restrictions placed on apps to maintain privacy and security (if not enhance them). I'm guessing third party browsers with their own engines could come to iOS within a few years. Some other limitations, like allowing apps from a non-App Store sources (except the Xcode side loading available now, for which a Mac is required), would never be lifted.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    > Some other limitations, like allowing apps from a non-App Store sources (except the Xcode side loading available now, for which a Mac is required), would never be lifted. A Mac and $99 a year. That's not cheap, and given how infrequently I replace my phone, might be up to an additional 50% on the base cost, even if you have the Mac. Around 2011 or 2012 I wanted to play around with making an iPhone app. I never did because I didn't have a Mac and didn't want to pay hundreds of dollars and a $99 fee on top of that just to play around.
    - kalleboo 9y ago
      Since Xcode 7, a free dev account is all you need to sideload. $99 is now just if you want to distribute apps.
      - kbenson 9y ago
        Well, that's half the problem down, now they just need to ship Xcode for Windows or Linux. I used a Mac for work for a couple years 5-6 years ago. It wasn't horrible, but it definitely grated in areas. Mainly in how the window manager switches applications, and windows within the application with different commands, and for my usual workflow (lots of terminals and a browser) that was extremely annoying. It might not have grated so much if I wasn't coming from a custom FVWM config I had been revising for over a decade, but the limitations of the OS X window manager were maddening at the time.
- r00fus 9y ago
  > such as only allowing signed applications delivered through their own app store Isn't this more of a restriction on developers? I know as someone who's coded Mac apps since the 80s that Apple has been very much users>>developers. While it restricts what you can install (i.e., no f.lux a closed binary), it also prevents a lot of potential malware from spreading.
  - detaro 9y ago
    It also restricts users: they can't use apps Apple doesn't like (including malware, where it is good, but far from only malware)
abraae 9y ago
Refusing to add a right mouse button?
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  The single button Apple mouse has been dead since 2005. You’re literally repeating a meme that has been dead & incorrect for longer than the MacBook Pro has existed.
  - abraae 9y ago
    Per George Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      Haha! Touché sir, but I would note he said “remember” not “snark in response with” ;)
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Do they actually ship two button mice? They've had the ability to read both buttons for ages, but from my recollection, they still never shipped a two button mouse, and even when they started shipping mice that had the functionality of the two button mouse, they reduced it to no buttons in doing so.[1] A person could be forgiven for thinking there might have been a powerful person at the top that didn't want to be seen as having been wrong: [2] Eventually I said, ‘Well, this was asked for by the marketing division. It’s a multi-button mouse. It’s been approved through Apple’s process channels, and so we’ve been working on it.” Jobs stared at him. “I’m Marketing,” he said. “It’s a marketing team of one. And we’re not doing that product.” With that, he turned and stalked off. 1: https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ 2: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-multi-button-mouse/ https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-...

App store policies mostly, such no browser engine except Safari, no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? It was for quite a while), etc. There are policies that empower the user, such as making applications subscribe to specific security permission sets and notifying the user what those are, and there are policies that restrict the user, such as only allowing signed applications delivered through their own app store. To my mind, Apple is much more willing to restrict their users for what they see as their own good, as well as for Apple's profit. Android isn't perfect in this regard either, but it's better (at least for a lot of brands, which allow third party applications if you jump through the right hoops).

ryanobjc 9y ago
The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS - Google Maps, Waze on iOS (and others) Restrictions that empower users on iOS ultimately restrict developers. That is an essential power balance "problem". Which side one prefers sure says a lot about that person ;-)
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS On iOS, any "third-party" browser is just a wrapper around Apple's rendering engine.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Opera gets around this by doing the rendering on their server and pushing the results to the app. This also enables them to do things like a VPN without additional software and image/page compression being done server-side, instead of using the Safari engine (blink or webkit?). At least that is now it was very recently. As in, within the past year. I'm not sure if it has changed since. In May, they announced they were slowing development down. I haven't followed up with that.
    - pgeorgi 9y ago
      While commendable that Opera achieved this (although Opera Mini isn't exactly new), it's still a gross hack. And when it comes to privacy, moving the outer half (network, rendering, input handling) of your browser to the cloud is a disaster.
lloydde 9y ago
> no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? Not App Store policy, but can’t change the app handling the functionality at least for the main one I care about Maps.
newscracker 9y ago
In my view, Apple has been slow to make iOS more flexible and less restrictive. I'm hoping that some of the above limitations would be removed in some way in another few years. Allowing a third party app to be set as default for some function could be done right now, but Apple doesn't seem to think it has any incentive to do so. I'm not expecting that change anytime soon, or ever. Some other changes will be done in a methodical way without compromising on the app sandbox and other restrictions placed on apps to maintain privacy and security (if not enhance them). I'm guessing third party browsers with their own engines could come to iOS within a few years. Some other limitations, like allowing apps from a non-App Store sources (except the Xcode side loading available now, for which a Mac is required), would never be lifted.
- kbenson 9y ago
  > Some other limitations, like allowing apps from a non-App Store sources (except the Xcode side loading available now, for which a Mac is required), would never be lifted. A Mac and $99 a year. That's not cheap, and given how infrequently I replace my phone, might be up to an additional 50% on the base cost, even if you have the Mac. Around 2011 or 2012 I wanted to play around with making an iPhone app. I never did because I didn't have a Mac and didn't want to pay hundreds of dollars and a $99 fee on top of that just to play around.
  - kalleboo 9y ago
    Since Xcode 7, a free dev account is all you need to sideload. $99 is now just if you want to distribute apps.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      Well, that's half the problem down, now they just need to ship Xcode for Windows or Linux. I used a Mac for work for a couple years 5-6 years ago. It wasn't horrible, but it definitely grated in areas. Mainly in how the window manager switches applications, and windows within the application with different commands, and for my usual workflow (lots of terminals and a browser) that was extremely annoying. It might not have grated so much if I wasn't coming from a custom FVWM config I had been revising for over a decade, but the limitations of the OS X window manager were maddening at the time.
r00fus 9y ago
> such as only allowing signed applications delivered through their own app store Isn't this more of a restriction on developers? I know as someone who's coded Mac apps since the 80s that Apple has been very much users>>developers. While it restricts what you can install (i.e., no f.lux a closed binary), it also prevents a lot of potential malware from spreading.
- detaro 9y ago
  It also restricts users: they can't use apps Apple doesn't like (including malware, where it is good, but far from only malware)

abraae 9y ago

Refusing to add a right mouse button?

abritinthebay 9y ago
The single button Apple mouse has been dead since 2005. You’re literally repeating a meme that has been dead & incorrect for longer than the MacBook Pro has existed.
- abraae 9y ago
  Per George Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    Haha! Touché sir, but I would note he said “remember” not “snark in response with” ;)
- kbenson 9y ago
  Do they actually ship two button mice? They've had the ability to read both buttons for ages, but from my recollection, they still never shipped a two button mouse, and even when they started shipping mice that had the functionality of the two button mouse, they reduced it to no buttons in doing so.[1] A person could be forgiven for thinking there might have been a powerful person at the top that didn't want to be seen as having been wrong: [2] Eventually I said, ‘Well, this was asked for by the marketing division. It’s a multi-button mouse. It’s been approved through Apple’s process channels, and so we’ve been working on it.” Jobs stared at him. “I’m Marketing,” he said. “It’s a marketing team of one. And we’re not doing that product.” With that, he turned and stalked off. 1: https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ 2: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-multi-button-mouse/ https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-...