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I really struggled with my most recent phone purchasing decision but ended up sticking with iOS because, despite how much I love the customizability of Android,

I really struggled with my most recent phone purchasing decision but ended up sticking with iOS because, despite how much I love the customizability of Android, I feel like the stance Apple has taken on privacy over the last few years is something I want to support. I understand that for them it may just be a business decision and differentiator, but it is one that is important enough to me to keep me on their platform.

kbenson 9y ago
That's interesting, because as a long time android user (I had an iphone 3G back in the day when it was one gen old, android since then), I'm going to struggle when it comes time to replace my Galaxy S6. Not only does Google make it hard by only offering high-end stock phones now (Pixel), Apple stepping up their commitments to privacy (not just this, but everything the last few years) has really helped counteract the bad taste I get from some of their policies.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  I’m curious: which policies?
  - kbenson 9y ago
    App store policies mostly, such no browser engine except Safari, no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? It was for quite a while), etc. There are policies that empower the user, such as making applications subscribe to specific security permission sets and notifying the user what those are, and there are policies that restrict the user, such as only allowing signed applications delivered through their own app store. To my mind, Apple is much more willing to restrict their users for what they see as their own good, as well as for Apple's profit. Android isn't perfect in this regard either, but it's better (at least for a lot of brands, which allow third party applications if you jump through the right hoops).
    - ryanobjc 9y ago
      The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS - Google Maps, Waze on iOS (and others) Restrictions that empower users on iOS ultimately restrict developers. That is an essential power balance "problem". Which side one prefers sure says a lot about that person ;-)
      - chimeracoder 9y ago
        > The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS On iOS, any "third-party" browser is just a wrapper around Apple's rendering engine.
        KGIII 9y ago
        Opera gets around this by doing the rendering on their server and pushing the results to the app. This also enables them to do things like a VPN without additional software and image/page compression being done server-side, instead of using the Safari engine (blink or webkit?). At least that is now it was very recently. As in, within the past year. I'm not sure if it has changed since. In May, they announced they were slowing development down. I haven't followed up with that.
        pgeorgi 9y ago
        While commendable that Opera achieved this (although Opera Mini isn't exactly new), it's still a gross hack. And when it comes to privacy, moving the outer half (network, rendering, input handling) of your browser to the cloud is a disaster.
    - lloydde 9y ago
      > no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? Not App Store policy, but can’t change the app handling the functionality at least for the main one I care about Maps.
    - newscracker 9y ago
  - abraae 9y ago
    Refusing to add a right mouse button?
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      The single button Apple mouse has been dead since 2005. You’re literally repeating a meme that has been dead & incorrect for longer than the MacBook Pro has existed.
      - abraae 9y ago
        Per George Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
        abritinthebay 9y ago
        Haha! Touché sir, but I would note he said “remember” not “snark in response with” ;)
      - kbenson 9y ago
        Do they actually ship two button mice? They've had the ability to read both buttons for ages, but from my recollection, they still never shipped a two button mouse, and even when they started shipping mice that had the functionality of the two button mouse, they reduced it to no buttons in doing so.[1] A person could be forgiven for thinking there might have been a powerful person at the top that didn't want to be seen as having been wrong: [2] Eventually I said, ‘Well, this was asked for by the marketing division. It’s a multi-button mouse. It’s been approved through Apple’s process channels, and so we’ve been working on it.” Jobs stared at him. “I’m Marketing,” he said. “It’s a marketing team of one. And we’re not doing that product.” With that, he turned and stalked off. 1: https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ 2: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-multi-button-mouse/ https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-...
taneq 9y ago
I may not be up to date on Apple's stance but last I read it, I thought their privacy policy basically said "we record whatever we want, and use it how we want" (maybe with a "but we won't sell it" clause)? I feel there's some very careful wording in the OP which blurs the lines between "we care about protecting your privacy from everyone, including us" and "we care about protecting your privacy from everyone, except us". I don't have time right now to do another deep dive through their legal documents but this is the kind of thing large data-driven companies do to keep their customers feeling good while they go about collecting data as always.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  So far Apple is not in the ad business, they are in the hardware business.
- obituary_latte 9y ago
  The lines aren't blurred at all. In fact, they even explicitly say that the data they do collect is anonymous and used to find patterns in usage etc. not to sell or do other nefarious things with.
- redial 9y ago
  > we record whatever we want, and use it how we want Where are you getting this? They explicitly list what they do and do not collect, and the purpose of it.
carlivar 9y ago
<tries to decide which is worse, privacy violations or having all app icons on the phone desktop somewhere>

kbenson 9y ago

That's interesting, because as a long time android user (I had an iphone 3G back in the day when it was one gen old, android since then), I'm going to struggle when it comes time to replace my Galaxy S6. Not only does Google make it hard by only offering high-end stock phones now (Pixel), Apple stepping up their commitments to privacy (not just this, but everything the last few years) has really helped counteract the bad taste I get from some of their policies.

abritinthebay 9y ago
I’m curious: which policies?
- kbenson 9y ago
  App store policies mostly, such no browser engine except Safari, no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? It was for quite a while), etc. There are policies that empower the user, such as making applications subscribe to specific security permission sets and notifying the user what those are, and there are policies that restrict the user, such as only allowing signed applications delivered through their own app store. To my mind, Apple is much more willing to restrict their users for what they see as their own good, as well as for Apple's profit. Android isn't perfect in this regard either, but it's better (at least for a lot of brands, which allow third party applications if you jump through the right hoops).
  - ryanobjc 9y ago
    The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS - Google Maps, Waze on iOS (and others) Restrictions that empower users on iOS ultimately restrict developers. That is an essential power balance "problem". Which side one prefers sure says a lot about that person ;-)
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > The app store policies you state are no longer in force, eg: - Chrome, Opera, and Firebox on iOS On iOS, any "third-party" browser is just a wrapper around Apple's rendering engine.
      - KGIII 9y ago
        Opera gets around this by doing the rendering on their server and pushing the results to the app. This also enables them to do things like a VPN without additional software and image/page compression being done server-side, instead of using the Safari engine (blink or webkit?). At least that is now it was very recently. As in, within the past year. I'm not sure if it has changed since. In May, they announced they were slowing development down. I haven't followed up with that.
        pgeorgi 9y ago
        While commendable that Opera achieved this (although Opera Mini isn't exactly new), it's still a gross hack. And when it comes to privacy, moving the outer half (network, rendering, input handling) of your browser to the cloud is a disaster.
  - lloydde 9y ago
    > no replacing functionality offered by a built in app (is that still one? Not App Store policy, but can’t change the app handling the functionality at least for the main one I care about Maps.
  - newscracker 9y ago
- abraae 9y ago
  Refusing to add a right mouse button?
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    The single button Apple mouse has been dead since 2005. You’re literally repeating a meme that has been dead & incorrect for longer than the MacBook Pro has existed.
    - abraae 9y ago
      Per George Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
      - abritinthebay 9y ago
        Haha! Touché sir, but I would note he said “remember” not “snark in response with” ;)
    - kbenson 9y ago
      Do they actually ship two button mice? They've had the ability to read both buttons for ages, but from my recollection, they still never shipped a two button mouse, and even when they started shipping mice that had the functionality of the two button mouse, they reduced it to no buttons in doing so.[1] A person could be forgiven for thinking there might have been a powerful person at the top that didn't want to be seen as having been wrong: [2] Eventually I said, ‘Well, this was asked for by the marketing division. It’s a multi-button mouse. It’s been approved through Apple’s process channels, and so we’ve been working on it.” Jobs stared at him. “I’m Marketing,” he said. “It’s a marketing team of one. And we’re not doing that product.” With that, he turned and stalked off. 1: https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ https://512pixels.net/2012/11/mouse/ 2: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-multi-button-mouse/ https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/11/steve-jobs-displeasure-...

taneq 9y ago

I may not be up to date on Apple's stance but last I read it, I thought their privacy policy basically said "we record whatever we want, and use it how we want" (maybe with a "but we won't sell it" clause)? I feel there's some very careful wording in the OP which blurs the lines between "we care about protecting your privacy from everyone, including us" and "we care about protecting your privacy from everyone, except us". I don't have time right now to do another deep dive through their legal documents but this is the kind of thing large data-driven companies do to keep their customers feeling good while they go about collecting data as always.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
So far Apple is not in the ad business, they are in the hardware business.
obituary_latte 9y ago
The lines aren't blurred at all. In fact, they even explicitly say that the data they do collect is anonymous and used to find patterns in usage etc. not to sell or do other nefarious things with.
redial 9y ago
> we record whatever we want, and use it how we want Where are you getting this? They explicitly list what they do and do not collect, and the purpose of it.

carlivar 9y ago