5 ms·
>> I'm not even male. > I sure do wish I could convince people of this, but getting "they" from folks has been impossible. It could be that pronouns have no b
by empthought 9y ago
>> I'm not even male.
> I sure do wish I could convince people of this, but getting "they" from folks has been impossible.
It could be that pronouns have no bearing on one's sex class.
- KirinDave 9y agoIf that's the case then why refuse any such designation? We certainly put up with more eccentric affectations than this is our community, like the idea of 10x programmers, the relevance of object oriented programming, free $4 bottle water, ping pong during work hours, or the idea that everyone needs a $3200 laptop. No, it's precisely because it has bearing that people oppose it.
- empthought 9y agoIt seems eccentric but harmless to ask that people use non-gendered pronouns, but when other people respect that, it is almost certainly not because they now believe that you are somehow not male.
- KirinDave 9y agoI haven't asked them to approve of my lifestyle, just not actively erase it or demand I pander to their desire to ignore it. If you don't care how I feel, I'm willing to extend symmetrical courtesy. However, basic affordances accepting other people's differences seem like an excellent comprimise, and has worked quite well historically. But here you are, acting like it's an undue burden and I should be ashamed. Why is that?
- empthought 9y agoI don't think you understand what I am saying. Convincing people to use gender-neutral pronouns for you and convincing them that you are not male are two entirely different things. That is all. I would venture to guess that you have convinced zero people that you are not male, but I made no statement about how pronoun preferences are an undue burden or how you should be ashamed; you made that up yourself.
- KirinDave 9y ago> Convincing people to use gender-neutral pronouns for you and convincing them that you are not male are two entirely different things. That is all. And I'm telling you that it definitely does. > I would venture to guess that you have convinced zero people that you are not male This is untrue. But it depends on the venue. And in many cases succeeding at this changes how people treat me. > but I made no statement about how pronoun preferences are an undue burden or how you should be ashamed; you made that up yourself. No. You're just here to represent the "I will never accept what you're saying" squad.
- empthought 9y ago> You're just here to represent the "I will never accept what you're saying" squad. The question of whether you are a male or not is not dependent on whether I or anyone else accepts what you are saying. It is a material condition. If we want to change words so that "male" is what you are talking about and e.g. "AMAB" is what I am talking about, so be it. The second is not dependent on what anyone believes or "assigns."
- KirinDave 9y agoI'm so relieved there now we're going to bring judeo-christian pseudoscience in this conversation. Finally we're back on familiar territory.
- empthought 9y agoHuman reproductive function and capacity is not dependent on cultures or beliefs; hope this helps clear things up for you. Ever produced small motile gametes? Then you're a male! Congrats!
- KirinDave 9y agoA classic example of the judeo-christian appeal to misunderstood high school science: you just said if you ever are infertile you're not "male". That's almost certainly not what you meant, which is: "My worldview is that no one is allowed to opt out of my gender foreverwar because of how much I benefit from the status quo." Fertility and reproduction have very little to do with 'gender' except where people attempting societal manipulation try and force it to. From a scientific perspective the correlations are minimal and difficult to measure.