5 ms·

> I'm not even male. I sure do wish I could convince people of this, but getting "they" from folks has been impossible. > But, alternative thought, maybe the

> I'm not even male. I sure do wish I could convince people of this, but getting "they" from folks has been impossible. > But, alternative thought, maybe the "youth obsession" is also partially created because everybody thinks it exists. If that's the case than it's much worse than simple bias.

empthought 9y ago
>> I'm not even male. > I sure do wish I could convince people of this, but getting "they" from folks has been impossible. It could be that pronouns have no bearing on one's sex class.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  If that's the case then why refuse any such designation? We certainly put up with more eccentric affectations than this is our community, like the idea of 10x programmers, the relevance of object oriented programming, free $4 bottle water, ping pong during work hours, or the idea that everyone needs a $3200 laptop. No, it's precisely because it has bearing that people oppose it.
  - empthought 9y ago
    It seems eccentric but harmless to ask that people use non-gendered pronouns, but when other people respect that, it is almost certainly not because they now believe that you are somehow not male.
    - KirinDave 9y ago
      I haven't asked them to approve of my lifestyle, just not actively erase it or demand I pander to their desire to ignore it. If you don't care how I feel, I'm willing to extend symmetrical courtesy. However, basic affordances accepting other people's differences seem like an excellent comprimise, and has worked quite well historically. But here you are, acting like it's an undue burden and I should be ashamed. Why is that?
      - empthought 9y ago
        I don't think you understand what I am saying. Convincing people to use gender-neutral pronouns for you and convincing them that you are not male are two entirely different things. That is all. I would venture to guess that you have convinced zero people that you are not male, but I made no statement about how pronoun preferences are an undue burden or how you should be ashamed; you made that up yourself.
        KirinDave 9y ago
        > Convincing people to use gender-neutral pronouns for you and convincing them that you are not male are two entirely different things. That is all. And I'm telling you that it definitely does. > I would venture to guess that you have convinced zero people that you are not male This is untrue. But it depends on the venue. And in many cases succeeding at this changes how people treat me. > but I made no statement about how pronoun preferences are an undue burden or how you should be ashamed; you made that up yourself. No. You're just here to represent the "I will never accept what you're saying" squad.
        empthought 9y ago
        > You're just here to represent the "I will never accept what you're saying" squad. The question of whether you are a male or not is not dependent on whether I or anyone else accepts what you are saying. It is a material condition. If we want to change words so that "male" is what you are talking about and e.g. "AMAB" is what I am talking about, so be it. The second is not dependent on what anyone believes or "assigns."
        KirinDave 9y ago
        I'm so relieved there now we're going to bring judeo-christian pseudoscience in this conversation. Finally we're back on familiar territory.
        empthought 9y ago

empthought 9y ago

>> I'm not even male. > I sure do wish I could convince people of this, but getting "they" from folks has been impossible. It could be that pronouns have no bearing on one's sex class.

KirinDave 9y ago
If that's the case then why refuse any such designation? We certainly put up with more eccentric affectations than this is our community, like the idea of 10x programmers, the relevance of object oriented programming, free $4 bottle water, ping pong during work hours, or the idea that everyone needs a $3200 laptop. No, it's precisely because it has bearing that people oppose it.
- empthought 9y ago
  It seems eccentric but harmless to ask that people use non-gendered pronouns, but when other people respect that, it is almost certainly not because they now believe that you are somehow not male.
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    I haven't asked them to approve of my lifestyle, just not actively erase it or demand I pander to their desire to ignore it. If you don't care how I feel, I'm willing to extend symmetrical courtesy. However, basic affordances accepting other people's differences seem like an excellent comprimise, and has worked quite well historically. But here you are, acting like it's an undue burden and I should be ashamed. Why is that?
    - empthought 9y ago
      I don't think you understand what I am saying. Convincing people to use gender-neutral pronouns for you and convincing them that you are not male are two entirely different things. That is all. I would venture to guess that you have convinced zero people that you are not male, but I made no statement about how pronoun preferences are an undue burden or how you should be ashamed; you made that up yourself.
      - KirinDave 9y ago
        > Convincing people to use gender-neutral pronouns for you and convincing them that you are not male are two entirely different things. That is all. And I'm telling you that it definitely does. > I would venture to guess that you have convinced zero people that you are not male This is untrue. But it depends on the venue. And in many cases succeeding at this changes how people treat me. > but I made no statement about how pronoun preferences are an undue burden or how you should be ashamed; you made that up yourself. No. You're just here to represent the "I will never accept what you're saying" squad.
        empthought 9y ago
        > You're just here to represent the "I will never accept what you're saying" squad. The question of whether you are a male or not is not dependent on whether I or anyone else accepts what you are saying. It is a material condition. If we want to change words so that "male" is what you are talking about and e.g. "AMAB" is what I am talking about, so be it. The second is not dependent on what anyone believes or "assigns."
        KirinDave 9y ago
        I'm so relieved there now we're going to bring judeo-christian pseudoscience in this conversation. Finally we're back on familiar territory.
        empthought 9y ago