5 ms·

I'm a bit out of the loop on amateur radio these days, but if I remember correctly there was a mass exodus from volunteer radio operators from the American Red

I'm a bit out of the loop on amateur radio these days, but if I remember correctly there was a mass exodus from volunteer radio operators from the American Red Cross to the Salvation Army over the background check issue. Volunteers that were bringing thousands of dollars of their own equipment to help saw it as very unnecessary and insulting. I'm a bit surprised to see they're still requiring the background checks... edit: I'm also a bit surprised they're requiring a General Class license. That cuts out a huge number of potential volunteers. Are they really using the other frequencies that opens up enough that it's a requirement? Possibly that is a reasonable requirement, but I've helped with disaster recovery simulations, etc. and my Technican Class license was just fine.

mikestew 9y ago
I imagine they might want a General license because you won't transmit beyond the island on a Technician license. Just a guess. EDIT: actually read the fine article, HF voice being one of the requirements. I assume they also want more than the tiny bit of HF that Technician licensees get to use. " Sorry, 10m isn't open, so I can't transmit, and I'm not allowed to use 40m."
- vvanders 9y ago
  Yeah, WinLink is also almost completely done on HF as well. Most hams I know have their General even if they don't use HF regularly.
jcrawfordor 9y ago
ARRL now conducts background checks on ARES volunteers, so the issue is rather moot (in fact ARC and ARRL have an MOU stating that ARRL is responsible for background checks on their volunteers assisting ARC, which presumably applies to this call as well). There have just been too many incidents of people with e.g. sexual assault on their rap sheets turning up working in shelters where there are all manner of vulnerable people. Terrible optics if nothing else. I suspect the general class requirement is just to cut down the applicants to a pool of more dedicated people. A very real problem with disaster volunteers, if I might be a little harsh especially from the amateur radio side, is "fair-weather responders" who will go through all the training and then not actually deploy. I've also personally found that people with higher class licenses are more likely to be into digital modes which is what they're mostly looking for, but that's getting less true as the equipment gets cheaper (to be honest I've never even seen a packet TNC in person). I happen to be both an ARC disaster worker and amateur radio operator, but I speak for myself.
- TallGuyShort 9y ago
  Given the negative PR against shelters that threatened to do background checks on all the other people they let into the shelters in the lead up to the recent hurricanes, that's gotta be just a CYA move, no? Isn't there a check that you're not a felon already in the FCC licensing process?
  - jcrawfordor 9y ago
    No, felons are absolutely not prohibited from having amateur radio licenses or even being ARRL members. ARC does not conduct background checks on shelter clients and to do so would almost certainly be found to be against the principle of neutrality, however, shelter clients are asked if they are required to register their location with the government (often because they are registered sex criminals) and there are procedures in place if so (although this is not an easy problem and has caused difficulty in the past).
    - VLM 9y ago
      They stopped asking the felon question for only a couple years, was basically an oversight, now its recent news that its coming back again. http://www.arrl.org/news/revised-fcc-form-605-will-ask-applicants-the-felony-question http://www.arrl.org/news/revised-fcc-form-605-will-ask-appli... The most famous felony-ham-license battle I can think of is the Kevin Mitnick incident from the turn of the century... the FCC lost and ended up renewing his license after all. I vaguely remember some 80s guys getting felony convictions for interfering with police radios and then losing their ham radio license. Of course the future does not necessarily rely on past events and policies.
- BackPropagate 9y ago
  They should restrict it to extras like me. And not the new mail-order no-code ones. I had to go to FCC field office on Varick Street and take code test.
- dmoy 9y ago
  What do all those acronyms mean?
flachsechs 9y ago
serious q: isn't transmission unregulated during emergency situations?
- uabstraction 9y ago
  You may break the rules in situations threatening life or property (there is an exemption for this), but why send potentally inexperienced technicians INTO a disaster area to drown out potential calls for help when you can send generals or extras who have more understanding and experience? Communications isn't an all hands on deck problem in the same sense that providing resources and shelter is. Ham nets and repeaters can get traffic jams very easily in a situation like this, so it's better to send a dozen experts than 100 beginners.
KGIII 9y ago
I once read that, during a declared emergency, you didn't need a license to operate the radio. I'm pretty sure it was on an official site, though it may have been on ARRL's site. I am unable to find it, so I'm not sure if it is true any longer, or if it was ever true. Assuming it is illegal, I wonder how mad the FCC would be - if one followed the rules and it was a real emergency?
- jcrawfordor 9y ago
  My understanding is that this provision applies only to "life or death emergencies" which safe and well linking activities are certainly not. I'm having a very hard time finding the actual letter of the law anyway, only various third-hand retellings that such a rule exists. Certainly it is intended only for narrow situations.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Thanks. I think I read similar, though maybe I decided in my head that a declared state of emergency was the qualifier. As it is a declared state of emergency, I'd speculate that that's a life or death situation? I suspect it's more nuanced and subjective than that. Like you, I searched for the letter of the law and wasn't actually able to find it. It may have been ARRL's site or a forum affiliated with them? It was something I noticed while learning and taking the practice exams.
    - extrapickles 9y ago
      The bit I found[0] indicates that its only permitted in immediate life safety situations (eg: someone directly dies or is seriously injured if the radio is not used). [0]: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6db0db07e83c4044625b8db1e5ab9bf7&mc=true&node=sp47.5.97.e&rgn=div6 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6db0db07e83c404462...
      - KGIII 9y ago
        §97.403 may be saying otherwise, but I could be reading it wrong. It does look pretty subjective, though that may be intentional.
rdiddly 9y ago
Yeah I remember looking into volunteering for them (not as radio op) and hitting a brick wall of bureaucracy. Must not need volunteers that bad.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
kw71 9y ago
You need General to operate HF
- lbrindze 9y ago
  Specifically if you want to operate HF phone or in digital modes (CW is allowed in >15m band for techs along with some limited hf phone and digital modes in 10m). Also you can operate marine SSB (which is hf phone) outside of a HAM general license as long as you operate on designated marine SSB channels.
  - kw71 9y ago
    I am not sure it's fair to use services like that for these purposes. Even if you have a permit/license for these services, they aren't for general telecommunications such as thirdparty messages between distant land stations, whether or not a marine or aero station is involved in relaying them. I suspect that this operation will be using phone and digital modes. CW and 10m are rather small, but interesting and valuable, niches. For this case, CW will be slow and 10m will be unreliable. Generally, it is easier to join the party by learning to pass the General exam, than waiting for a 10m opening or learning telegraph code :)
- antihero 9y ago
  How actually likely is anyone going to be able to track down a weak handheld signal that only TXs once every so often, though?

mikestew 9y ago

I imagine they might want a General license because you won't transmit beyond the island on a Technician license. Just a guess. EDIT: actually read the fine article, HF voice being one of the requirements. I assume they also want more than the tiny bit of HF that Technician licensees get to use. " Sorry, 10m isn't open, so I can't transmit, and I'm not allowed to use 40m."

vvanders 9y ago
Yeah, WinLink is also almost completely done on HF as well. Most hams I know have their General even if they don't use HF regularly.

jcrawfordor 9y ago

ARRL now conducts background checks on ARES volunteers, so the issue is rather moot (in fact ARC and ARRL have an MOU stating that ARRL is responsible for background checks on their volunteers assisting ARC, which presumably applies to this call as well). There have just been too many incidents of people with e.g. sexual assault on their rap sheets turning up working in shelters where there are all manner of vulnerable people. Terrible optics if nothing else. I suspect the general class requirement is just to cut down the applicants to a pool of more dedicated people. A very real problem with disaster volunteers, if I might be a little harsh especially from the amateur radio side, is "fair-weather responders" who will go through all the training and then not actually deploy. I've also personally found that people with higher class licenses are more likely to be into digital modes which is what they're mostly looking for, but that's getting less true as the equipment gets cheaper (to be honest I've never even seen a packet TNC in person). I happen to be both an ARC disaster worker and amateur radio operator, but I speak for myself.

TallGuyShort 9y ago
Given the negative PR against shelters that threatened to do background checks on all the other people they let into the shelters in the lead up to the recent hurricanes, that's gotta be just a CYA move, no? Isn't there a check that you're not a felon already in the FCC licensing process?
- jcrawfordor 9y ago
  No, felons are absolutely not prohibited from having amateur radio licenses or even being ARRL members. ARC does not conduct background checks on shelter clients and to do so would almost certainly be found to be against the principle of neutrality, however, shelter clients are asked if they are required to register their location with the government (often because they are registered sex criminals) and there are procedures in place if so (although this is not an easy problem and has caused difficulty in the past).
  - VLM 9y ago
    They stopped asking the felon question for only a couple years, was basically an oversight, now its recent news that its coming back again. http://www.arrl.org/news/revised-fcc-form-605-will-ask-applicants-the-felony-question http://www.arrl.org/news/revised-fcc-form-605-will-ask-appli... The most famous felony-ham-license battle I can think of is the Kevin Mitnick incident from the turn of the century... the FCC lost and ended up renewing his license after all. I vaguely remember some 80s guys getting felony convictions for interfering with police radios and then losing their ham radio license. Of course the future does not necessarily rely on past events and policies.
BackPropagate 9y ago
They should restrict it to extras like me. And not the new mail-order no-code ones. I had to go to FCC field office on Varick Street and take code test.
dmoy 9y ago
What do all those acronyms mean?

flachsechs 9y ago

serious q: isn't transmission unregulated during emergency situations?

uabstraction 9y ago
You may break the rules in situations threatening life or property (there is an exemption for this), but why send potentally inexperienced technicians INTO a disaster area to drown out potential calls for help when you can send generals or extras who have more understanding and experience? Communications isn't an all hands on deck problem in the same sense that providing resources and shelter is. Ham nets and repeaters can get traffic jams very easily in a situation like this, so it's better to send a dozen experts than 100 beginners.

KGIII 9y ago

I once read that, during a declared emergency, you didn't need a license to operate the radio. I'm pretty sure it was on an official site, though it may have been on ARRL's site. I am unable to find it, so I'm not sure if it is true any longer, or if it was ever true. Assuming it is illegal, I wonder how mad the FCC would be - if one followed the rules and it was a real emergency?

jcrawfordor 9y ago
My understanding is that this provision applies only to "life or death emergencies" which safe and well linking activities are certainly not. I'm having a very hard time finding the actual letter of the law anyway, only various third-hand retellings that such a rule exists. Certainly it is intended only for narrow situations.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Thanks. I think I read similar, though maybe I decided in my head that a declared state of emergency was the qualifier. As it is a declared state of emergency, I'd speculate that that's a life or death situation? I suspect it's more nuanced and subjective than that. Like you, I searched for the letter of the law and wasn't actually able to find it. It may have been ARRL's site or a forum affiliated with them? It was something I noticed while learning and taking the practice exams.
  - extrapickles 9y ago
    The bit I found[0] indicates that its only permitted in immediate life safety situations (eg: someone directly dies or is seriously injured if the radio is not used). [0]: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6db0db07e83c4044625b8db1e5ab9bf7&mc=true&node=sp47.5.97.e&rgn=div6 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6db0db07e83c404462...
    - KGIII 9y ago
      §97.403 may be saying otherwise, but I could be reading it wrong. It does look pretty subjective, though that may be intentional.

rdiddly 9y ago

Yeah I remember looking into volunteering for them (not as radio op) and hitting a brick wall of bureaucracy. Must not need volunteers that bad.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

kw71 9y ago

You need General to operate HF

lbrindze 9y ago
Specifically if you want to operate HF phone or in digital modes (CW is allowed in >15m band for techs along with some limited hf phone and digital modes in 10m). Also you can operate marine SSB (which is hf phone) outside of a HAM general license as long as you operate on designated marine SSB channels.
- kw71 9y ago
  I am not sure it's fair to use services like that for these purposes. Even if you have a permit/license for these services, they aren't for general telecommunications such as thirdparty messages between distant land stations, whether or not a marine or aero station is involved in relaying them. I suspect that this operation will be using phone and digital modes. CW and 10m are rather small, but interesting and valuable, niches. For this case, CW will be slow and 10m will be unreliable. Generally, it is easier to join the party by learning to pass the General exam, than waiting for a 10m opening or learning telegraph code :)
antihero 9y ago
How actually likely is anyone going to be able to track down a weak handheld signal that only TXs once every so often, though?