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> Sure, they favor high-quality consumer goods—but they deliberate on what to buy for years, and expect their possessions to last for decades. This. The US wa

> Sure, they favor high-quality consumer goods—but they deliberate on what to buy for years, and expect their possessions to last for decades. This. The US was similar in this aspect until major retail manufacturers started outsourcing everything to China. I remember reading elsewhere on HN a while back, how Sears Washing Machines, Refridgerators and other house hold appliances would last for decades, then, somewhere along the 70s or 80s, they (and several other major home appliance retailers) switched to manufacturing in China on the cheap and did away with repairing stuff. That just forces you to toss your old appliance and buy a new one every 7 to 10 years when they fall apart.

alexasmyths 9y ago
Partly that, it's partly by design. A) They want them to fail so people buy more. B) Consumers in North America like change. They want new stuff.
Fnoord 9y ago
Thing is, if you buy a new washing machine and replace it within 10 years you end up spending money on a new, cheaper one which is more environment-friendly than the most environment-friendly ones from 10 years ago. Whereas your Miele would've lasted 20 years easily but would've been out of date on the environmental department. Its a catch-22. The same with something like smartphones (I take it readers are thinking about smartphones when they read this article? Very 'ungerman' product IMO). If you buy a new one you end up downcycling the plastic and recycling some of the elements. Yes, you gotta pay again for a phone. But its also presumably better. It wasn't possible to upgrade the old phone because phones are such small, embedded technology (with bad software support being a minor part of the problem) that they've become waste products. We, as tech community, need to solve this problem in order to reduce environmental waste. How? Modular devices. Laptops used to be modular. Now they've gone the smartphone route. Why? Less weight/size, and less durability and the inability to fix it yourself yields more profit. We can stop this by voting with our wallet.
jlgray 9y ago
Some of that has a "you get what you pay for" component. My parents have a Frigidaire Flair double oven from the early 1960s. The thing is amazing, and still works perfectly. I think it cost something like $400 originally, which would be north of $3000 today, however in 1963 the median income was $6200 [1], so that would be closer to $4000 for the median person of today. For that kind of money, you could definitely get some nicer appliances today. Although the switch from simple analog to complex digital electronics probably puts a more modest ceiling on the lifespan of anything made today. On the other hand, there is also something to be said for being able to have an oven without taking out a loan! 1. https://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-043.pdf https://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-043.pdf

alexasmyths 9y ago

Partly that, it's partly by design. A) They want them to fail so people buy more. B) Consumers in North America like change. They want new stuff.

Fnoord 9y ago

Thing is, if you buy a new washing machine and replace it within 10 years you end up spending money on a new, cheaper one which is more environment-friendly than the most environment-friendly ones from 10 years ago. Whereas your Miele would've lasted 20 years easily but would've been out of date on the environmental department. Its a catch-22. The same with something like smartphones (I take it readers are thinking about smartphones when they read this article? Very 'ungerman' product IMO). If you buy a new one you end up downcycling the plastic and recycling some of the elements. Yes, you gotta pay again for a phone. But its also presumably better. It wasn't possible to upgrade the old phone because phones are such small, embedded technology (with bad software support being a minor part of the problem) that they've become waste products. We, as tech community, need to solve this problem in order to reduce environmental waste. How? Modular devices. Laptops used to be modular. Now they've gone the smartphone route. Why? Less weight/size, and less durability and the inability to fix it yourself yields more profit. We can stop this by voting with our wallet.

jlgray 9y ago

Some of that has a "you get what you pay for" component. My parents have a Frigidaire Flair double oven from the early 1960s. The thing is amazing, and still works perfectly. I think it cost something like $400 originally, which would be north of $3000 today, however in 1963 the median income was $6200 [1], so that would be closer to $4000 for the median person of today. For that kind of money, you could definitely get some nicer appliances today. Although the switch from simple analog to complex digital electronics probably puts a more modest ceiling on the lifespan of anything made today. On the other hand, there is also something to be said for being able to have an oven without taking out a loan! 1. https://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-043.pdf https://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-043.pdf