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Where is the difference between 'I choose to do it' and 'I couldn't choose not to do it'? A lot of perceived differences between these I've seen others mention

Where is the difference between 'I choose to do it' and 'I couldn't choose not to do it'? A lot of perceived differences between these I've seen others mention is based on free will, which is something science isn't sure even exists.

Sangermaine 9y ago
If you're responding to the parent's situation where someone causes violence due to mental issues leading to a loss of control, the latter may be treatable and curable, after which the threat is gone if the person, absent the mental issues that caused the loss of control, doesn't want to harm people. The former was a choice that may be made again, so is therefore always a threat even if they truly repent and are sorry for their choice.
- derekp7 9y ago
  So basically the same thing if someone had a stroke violent seizure while at a restaurant, while cutting a steak, and accidentally stabbed the waiter in the heart killing him. In that case, a brain defect caused the person to kill the victim, yet in no way should he be held criminally responsible.
- BearGoesChirp 9y ago
  So, for example, should pedophiles who abuse not be guilty of a crime and instead just be chemically castrated, because without the desire they wouldn't have wanted to harm a child? Consider many places involuntarily commit such individuals into psychiatric wards, though normally only after the prison sentence has been served.
occamrazor 9y ago
If free will does not exist, then also the prosecutors, judges and jury are not free, and there is no point deciding what they _should_ do. Hence it is safe to choose policies based on the assumption that free will exists.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> which is something science isn't sure even exists. “Free will” isn't something “science isn't sure even exists”, it is instead fundamentally incompatible with the model of reality which is required by science.
- BearGoesChirp 9y ago
  I was trying to avoid going on too strong, but free will does seem akin to magic or miracles given our current scientific understanding.
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
I categorize "free will" like tort law, not like physics. When you have "free will" for a choice, you're in a situation where you are able to commit a tort or a crime in the eyes of society. Like, do people have free will while they are sleepwalking? Science doesn't have a good answer, but people have successfully been acquitted of crimes they claimed they committed while asleep. It's far easier to answer questions about free will when you think of it in legal terms, and it matches up pretty well with your intuitions about things.

Sangermaine 9y ago

If you're responding to the parent's situation where someone causes violence due to mental issues leading to a loss of control, the latter may be treatable and curable, after which the threat is gone if the person, absent the mental issues that caused the loss of control, doesn't want to harm people. The former was a choice that may be made again, so is therefore always a threat even if they truly repent and are sorry for their choice.

derekp7 9y ago
So basically the same thing if someone had a stroke violent seizure while at a restaurant, while cutting a steak, and accidentally stabbed the waiter in the heart killing him. In that case, a brain defect caused the person to kill the victim, yet in no way should he be held criminally responsible.
BearGoesChirp 9y ago
So, for example, should pedophiles who abuse not be guilty of a crime and instead just be chemically castrated, because without the desire they wouldn't have wanted to harm a child? Consider many places involuntarily commit such individuals into psychiatric wards, though normally only after the prison sentence has been served.

occamrazor 9y ago

If free will does not exist, then also the prosecutors, judges and jury are not free, and there is no point deciding what they _should_ do. Hence it is safe to choose policies based on the assumption that free will exists.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> which is something science isn't sure even exists. “Free will” isn't something “science isn't sure even exists”, it is instead fundamentally incompatible with the model of reality which is required by science.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago
I was trying to avoid going on too strong, but free will does seem akin to magic or miracles given our current scientific understanding.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

I categorize "free will" like tort law, not like physics. When you have "free will" for a choice, you're in a situation where you are able to commit a tort or a crime in the eyes of society. Like, do people have free will while they are sleepwalking? Science doesn't have a good answer, but people have successfully been acquitted of crimes they claimed they committed while asleep. It's far easier to answer questions about free will when you think of it in legal terms, and it matches up pretty well with your intuitions about things.