4 ms·

Wrong. In the US you may be liable for the full amount stolen if you fail to notice the theft in 30 days. Even if you report the theft promptly, the law allows

by mrb 9y ago

Wrong. In the US you may be liable for the full amount stolen if you fail to notice the theft in 30 days. Even if you report the theft promptly, the law allows your issuer to make you liable for the first $50. Also you completely ignored my point about hardware wallets making theft a non-problem.

QAPereo 9y ago
Sure, so don’t ignore your finances for a month.
- mrb 9y ago
  You will still be liable for $50. And you again ignored my point about hardware wallets making theft a non-problem.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Actually it can still be stolen, but like an impenetrable safe full of money, of no use to the thief. You’d still be screwed though!
    - mrb 9y ago
      Not screwed, because a hw wallet can easily be backed up by writing down the 12/24-word seed in a safe/hidden spot. Our discussion thread demonstrates that more education is needed around hardware wallets, as most people have no idea how they work or even that they exist.
      - dungle6 9y ago
        I know how they work and that they exist. However, I use cash as little as possible, and really don't need a cash substitute. The few times I use cash it is for small consumable purchases and things paid with a few quarters. No need for the waiting for a bitcoin transaction to clear. There are people that prefer cash. Of those people, a large portion of them are old or luddites/anti-tech (I actually don't mean this pejoratively as I sympathize with this view), but these people probably won't be too keen on Bitcoin as a replacement. The other portion are those seemingly like yourself that are all embracing of alternative payment methods or basically e-gold. That's great, but you are a niche bunch and I assume a pretty self-selected group. The mainstream wants convenient credit with decent consumer protections for the many advantages it brings to their boring, mainstream life. This is not ignorance. My credit cards give me extended warranties, travel protection. I just got a courtesy credit for a purchase well outside the return window, and I just was reimbursed a few hundred bucks for a computer that failed out of warranty. Meanwhile, I have had to call the credit card company once in 5 years for an unauthorized $200 charge. And no, I was not liable for a penny of it. I don't know where you keep getting off on this $50 stuff, but it's complete nonsense. No one ever pays $50 in practice. And most cards the window is 90 days for a dispute.
  - dungle6 9y ago
    There is no major credit card company in the US that doesn't have a $0 liability policy.
simlevesque 9y ago
Can't you steal a hardware wallet ?
- mrb 9y ago
  They are typically PIN-protected. And you can back them up by writing the 12/24-word seed in a safe/hidden spot.
  - Pinckney 9y ago
    What assurance do I have that the HW wallet vendor doesn't have my seed written down for when they decide to retire?
    - mrb 9y ago
      If you are paranoid you can choose your own random seed when initializing the wallet.
castis 9y ago
> the law allows your issuer to make you liable for the first $50 This has never happened to me, and ive had a CC compromised a few times. If someone steals your hardware wallet, what do you consider that?
- mrb 9y ago
  Physically stealing a hardware wallet is typically not usefull because they are PIN-protected. And you can back them up by writing the 12/24-word seed in a safe/hidden spot.
dungle6 9y ago
Hardware wallets Do not prevent you from voluntarily giving up your money to thiefs. Social engineering doesn't go away. There are still plenty of ways to steal money from someone, whatever the form. I could always just rubberhose your wallet, is it immune to that? This is a problem with credit cards, but there is a great recourse for it. 2) No credit card I use today (and I use lots for rewards) has any term less than 90 days for dispute. Also all 3 major credit card companies offer $0 liability as part of their terms.

by mrb 9y ago

QAPereo 9y ago

Sure, so don’t ignore your finances for a month.

mrb 9y ago
You will still be liable for $50. And you again ignored my point about hardware wallets making theft a non-problem.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Actually it can still be stolen, but like an impenetrable safe full of money, of no use to the thief. You’d still be screwed though!
  - mrb 9y ago
    Not screwed, because a hw wallet can easily be backed up by writing down the 12/24-word seed in a safe/hidden spot. Our discussion thread demonstrates that more education is needed around hardware wallets, as most people have no idea how they work or even that they exist.
    - dungle6 9y ago
      I know how they work and that they exist. However, I use cash as little as possible, and really don't need a cash substitute. The few times I use cash it is for small consumable purchases and things paid with a few quarters. No need for the waiting for a bitcoin transaction to clear. There are people that prefer cash. Of those people, a large portion of them are old or luddites/anti-tech (I actually don't mean this pejoratively as I sympathize with this view), but these people probably won't be too keen on Bitcoin as a replacement. The other portion are those seemingly like yourself that are all embracing of alternative payment methods or basically e-gold. That's great, but you are a niche bunch and I assume a pretty self-selected group. The mainstream wants convenient credit with decent consumer protections for the many advantages it brings to their boring, mainstream life. This is not ignorance. My credit cards give me extended warranties, travel protection. I just got a courtesy credit for a purchase well outside the return window, and I just was reimbursed a few hundred bucks for a computer that failed out of warranty. Meanwhile, I have had to call the credit card company once in 5 years for an unauthorized $200 charge. And no, I was not liable for a penny of it. I don't know where you keep getting off on this $50 stuff, but it's complete nonsense. No one ever pays $50 in practice. And most cards the window is 90 days for a dispute.
- dungle6 9y ago
  There is no major credit card company in the US that doesn't have a $0 liability policy.

simlevesque 9y ago

Can't you steal a hardware wallet ?

mrb 9y ago
They are typically PIN-protected. And you can back them up by writing the 12/24-word seed in a safe/hidden spot.
- Pinckney 9y ago
  What assurance do I have that the HW wallet vendor doesn't have my seed written down for when they decide to retire?
  - mrb 9y ago
    If you are paranoid you can choose your own random seed when initializing the wallet.

castis 9y ago

> the law allows your issuer to make you liable for the first $50 This has never happened to me, and ive had a CC compromised a few times. If someone steals your hardware wallet, what do you consider that?

mrb 9y ago
Physically stealing a hardware wallet is typically not usefull because they are PIN-protected. And you can back them up by writing the 12/24-word seed in a safe/hidden spot.

dungle6 9y ago

Hardware wallets Do not prevent you from voluntarily giving up your money to thiefs. Social engineering doesn't go away. There are still plenty of ways to steal money from someone, whatever the form. I could always just rubberhose your wallet, is it immune to that? This is a problem with credit cards, but there is a great recourse for it. 2) No credit card I use today (and I use lots for rewards) has any term less than 90 days for dispute. Also all 3 major credit card companies offer $0 liability as part of their terms.