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That's the thing -- the police can't legally compel you to provide them access to your device, but if they can get it without you having to give them anything,

That's the thing -- the police can't legally compel you to provide them access to your device, but if they can get it without you having to give them anything, by, say, pointing the phone at your face, it's fair game. I don't have time to look up the court precedents about this, but that's my understanding of the current state of the law.

dragonwriter 9y ago
I misread the upthread comment as implying that FaceID “passwords” were more legally secure than regular passwords, not just more legally secure than plain FaceID. I agree that the description you provide is generally correct.
jsjohnst 9y ago
> the police can't legally compel you to provide them access to your device Your understanding of the current state of the law is very wrong. There's a person in the US [0] who has been in jail for multiple years now without being tried / convicted due to refusing to provide access to their devices. There's another case with a warrant[1] allowing an officer to force someone to unlock their phone protected by TouchID. I have also heard multiple US states have enacted laws specifically addressing device unlock, but I don't have links to them at the moment. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/man-in-jail-2-years-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives-will-he-ever-get-out/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/man-in-jail-2-ye... [1] http://files.cloudprivacy.net/la-iphone-fingerprint-warrant.pdf http://files.cloudprivacy.net/la-iphone-fingerprint-warrant....
- mbgerring 9y ago
  I don't think "very wrong" is a fair assesment. Here's a summary of current law (as of 2016) concerning cell phone passwords: https://consumerist.com/2016/05/03/can-law-enforcement-force-you-to-unlock-your-phone-with-a-fingerprint/ https://consumerist.com/2016/05/03/can-law-enforcement-force...
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    > the police can't legally compel you That is a very wrong statement. I don’t care if things changed a year or more ago, it doesn’t make it any less wrong now. I of course meant no offense to you, but legal statements which are wrong could easily mislead someone and the emphasis is necessary. Apologies if offense was taken!

dragonwriter 9y ago

I misread the upthread comment as implying that FaceID “passwords” were more legally secure than regular passwords, not just more legally secure than plain FaceID. I agree that the description you provide is generally correct.

jsjohnst 9y ago

> the police can't legally compel you to provide them access to your device Your understanding of the current state of the law is very wrong. There's a person in the US [0] who has been in jail for multiple years now without being tried / convicted due to refusing to provide access to their devices. There's another case with a warrant[1] allowing an officer to force someone to unlock their phone protected by TouchID. I have also heard multiple US states have enacted laws specifically addressing device unlock, but I don't have links to them at the moment. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/man-in-jail-2-years-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives-will-he-ever-get-out/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/man-in-jail-2-ye... [1] http://files.cloudprivacy.net/la-iphone-fingerprint-warrant.pdf http://files.cloudprivacy.net/la-iphone-fingerprint-warrant....

mbgerring 9y ago
I don't think "very wrong" is a fair assesment. Here's a summary of current law (as of 2016) concerning cell phone passwords: https://consumerist.com/2016/05/03/can-law-enforcement-force-you-to-unlock-your-phone-with-a-fingerprint/ https://consumerist.com/2016/05/03/can-law-enforcement-force...
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  > the police can't legally compel you That is a very wrong statement. I don’t care if things changed a year or more ago, it doesn’t make it any less wrong now. I of course meant no offense to you, but legal statements which are wrong could easily mislead someone and the emphasis is necessary. Apologies if offense was taken!