5 ms·

Amazon announces new Fire TV with 4K and HDR

34 points by uyoakaoma 9y ago

Nexxxeh 9y ago
>Amazon today introduced a new Fire TV with HDR and 4K capabilities, which marks the first time the device has offered the higher-resolution video. Wait, what? There's been a 4K Amazon TV for ages. If they're talking about the new frame-rate and HDR, that's not resolution, is it?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > If they're talking about the new frame-rate and HDR, that's not resolution, is it? AFAIK, yes and no (respectively), strictly speaking. More fully: Frame rate is temporal resolution. HDR is increased range in luminosity, but does not (AFAIK) imply greater resolution in that dimension.
  - blackguardx 9y ago
    HDR is High Dynamic Range. Dynamic range is unitless, which allows comparisons different systems with different signal levels. The dynamic range compares the highest signal level to the lowest level. Higher dynamic range implies higher resolution because if you hold the maximum output as a constant, one can resolve smaller signals with a better DR spec.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      I think (though I may be wrong) this misses a difference between range and resolution. Yes, you can get lower absolute levels of the high end is constant, but HDR doesn't imply you can represent smaller differences in illumination level within the representable range of levels.
      - blackguardx 9y ago
        >HDR doesn't imply you can represent smaller differences in illumination level within the representable range of levels. It doesn't? Dynamic range and resolution are directly related. Dynamic range isn't "range." This is why an HDR image has greater bit depth (more bits). Greater bit depth implies more resolution. All things being equal, a system with higher dynamic range can convey smaller signals. More accurate information is able to be conveyed, which requires greater bit depth. There are even formulas for calculating the theoretical dynamic range of a digital system given its bit depth.
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Dynamic range isn't "range." In the application under discussion, it's the ratio between the highest and lowest representable illumination level. This is, I think, very clearly “range” in the usual sense. > Greater bit depth implies more resolution. But it doesn't, in the same way that frame rate (temporal resolution) differs from run time (temporal range). Now, the difference is in the what the output device does with the data (since data intended to support one use could be interpreted and used for the other, with a 120fps stream played at 24fps with 5 times the runtime, or vice versa), not the representation format, but the whole point of HDR is representing wider differences in illumination, not resolving smaller differences between the same minimum and maximum.
- jdboyd 9y ago
  They did issue a correction at the bottom of the article to that effect.
thebiglebrewski 9y ago
[baleted]
- blacksmith_tb 9y ago
  Wrong article? That typo is on their coverage of the new Echo...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dmix 9y ago
> Dolby Atmos integration Anyone try this new Dolby tech out yet in practice? Is it a meaningful improvement?
- mastax 9y ago
  I'm worried that 'Dolby Atmos' is a catch-all for a bunch of unrelated audio tech, but the positional audio in Overwatch (game) is noticeably better than most games have.
  - dmix 9y ago
    Well, I meant the "360 sound" part, where it goes above/below(?) your head instead of just around you. I'm starting to see Atmos in far more products and content now where it's going beyond early adopter territory, so I'm curious if it's a noticeable improvement, ala 4k.
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  I've noticed a difference in rewatching movies in different theaters in my city (one with Atmos support, the other without), but not enough of a difference I've felt a need to buy new home theater hardware for it.
- kodt 9y ago
  Yes it is good, however you need at least a 5.1.2 surround sound system to take advantage. And the 2 height speakers ideally need to be installed in your ceiling. Although they do have Atmos add on speakers that bounce the sound off the ceiling. To take full advantage you need 4 ceiling speakers.
drewg123 9y ago
But will it have YouTube? Actually, that's a serious question. I'm looking for a box to recommend to a friend who's going to cut the cord. I think the Nvidia Shield will be better for them due to being real android tv, and because I have one and know the Android TV ecosystem better... It looks like FireTV still doesn't have an easy way to install Kodi from the appstore, but requires that it be side-loaded. And it looks like the Youtube app in the amazon app store is written by Amazon. The icon makes it look not not legit..
- ashark 9y ago
  Side loading Kodi only takes a few minutes. I've got it on my FireTV—it's almost all I use it for, in fact.
  - drewg123 9y ago
    I had a fire stick, and did the same thing. But side-loading was a pain, especially for updates. On my Shield, I get all the updates via the Play store.
  - ddmf 9y ago
    I moved from raspberry pi's to amazon fire sticks and sideloading kodi is now down to a minute or so installation - including copying my advanced.xml over from a unc path so it uses the shared db. Life has been so much easier since.
- inthewoods 9y ago
  What about a Roku?
  - ashark 9y ago
    Parent mentions Kodi, which isn't on Roku at all (it's not written in Roku's Brightscript, obviously, so porting it would be a full re-write)
- mmanfrin 9y ago
  Shield is still the best settop, bar none.
dubyah 9y ago
https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-tv/docs/device-and-platform-specifications https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-t... Amlogic S905Z
benbristow 9y ago
What's the advantage of buying this over the current Amazon Box?
- jdboyd 9y ago
  The current amazon box is discontinued. Also, this does HDR.
  - benbristow 9y ago
    Will it still get updates? I don't need 4K nor do I need HDR.
- kodt 9y ago
  This one supports HDR and 60fps 4K video, while the last one only supported 30fps 4K video and did not support HDR.
- thought_alarm 9y ago
  The banner ads are now in 4K/HDR.
valuearb 9y ago
"But the Apple TV starts at $179, which is more than twice as expensive as this latest generation of Amazon’s Fire TV. That makes for a rough comparison if you’re Apple. Amazon has chosen to support HDR10 but not Dolby Vision for HDR playback. On the audio side, the device offers Dolby Atmos integration. That’s an odd switch-around from Apple’s approach with the Apple TV 4K, which outputs both Dolby Vision and HDR10 but not the Atmos audio format." AppleTV Atmos support is coming. And I don't think the comparison is rough. Apple is trying to make the best TV box not the cheapest. They should never cut the price, instead they should fix their rough edges, including the remote. I have no problem paying an extra $100 for a TV box I'm going to use every night if it's UI is the best, and it's content offerings are among the best.
- Razengan 9y ago
  The Apple TV is also a surprisingly good games console.
  - thefalcon 9y ago
    I wish they sold a version with a bundled controller: not because I had any trouble buying a MiFi controller separately, but because the fact that I had to do that means that there are far too few games that are built expecting me to have a controller. If there was a bundle, I imagine it would booster developer support as well. Also I think it would help justify its comparable-to-console pricing to many people.
- jrs95 9y ago
  I see this sort of thing a lot with comparisons between Amazon's products and their competitors. If all you're looking at is features and price, then Amazon looks like the winner most of the time. But having used both of these products, I'd go with an Apple TV over this without hesitation. The latest Apple TV is the only smart TV device I've used without having relatively serious bugs pop up on a fairly regular basis. The Nexus Player I had was so bad about this I really would have preferred having a DVD player and a Blockbuster to streaming...
gallerdude 9y ago
Ok, so this has the potential to age horrifically, but where do we go after 4K + HDR? I don't think VR is going to be the thing, and 3D has similar problems. 8K might be a thing, but even if that catches on, then I'll heavily doubt 16K will be. After those... RAW video?
- kodt 9y ago
  I agree 8K will be a thing... eventually. 16k less likely. there is already HDR10+, which is an improvement on HDR10 so I imagine better HDR formats and displays will be coming. 35mm films can't really scan much higher than 5k/6k, so we might be reaching the limit on new formats fairly soon. Many digital films today are shot in 2k or 4k, or have effects mastered at 2k. I imagine that won't translate very well to an 8k screen vs just a 4k.
cranjice 9y ago
I did a double take after seeing the device. That droopy built in cord seems like a really poor design choice. Aside from it being ugly there's potential for the cord to fail considering the device hangs from it and it can't be replaced. They even seem to be hiding it behind the remote in the amazon stock photos.
- etblg 9y ago
  Chromecast has the same design for some reason (I think it has a magnet on it, but still).
- mbrookes 9y ago
  Ugly is kind of irrelevant when it's plugged into the back of the TV. The back of most TVs are ugly anyway! I don't think the device will fail from hanging, as it's static, but it will almost certainly put strain on some varieties of HDMI connector, depending on orientation, and may be prone to falling out. One solution might have been an adhesive velcro pad to attach the device to the TV. In any case, it's pretty impressive to offer 4K in a device a fraction of the size of the new Apple TV, and powered only from the HDMI port. Now all they need is more than a couple of dozen titles in 4K!
  - suninwinter 9y ago
    > powered only from the HDMI port Looking at the marketing material, it’s clear Amazon is trying to make people think this and hope they’re not disappointed when they find out that, yes, they still have to plug it into the wall. There’s only one tiny image on the product page [1] that shows the power cord coming out. Every other image is very careful to show it from an angle that makes it seem like the HDMI cable is the only cable. There is text that mentions the power cable, but you have to scroll down pretty far (about 60% of the way down) before you’ll see it. [1] https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Ultra-Remote-Streaming-Player/dp/B01N32NCPM https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Ultra-Remote-Streaming-Player...
singularity2001 9y ago
"Alexa play bloodline on netflix on fire tv" instead of just "play bloodline". UI fails are not limited to guis. Yes it IS technicaly feasible to figure out that you are alone in your room and that you want to play movies on your default app + device. No strong AI needed for that yet.
xref 9y ago
No ethernet, no optical out, no usb, dang this really limits my options from how I am using my gen 1 fire tv. Wifi isn't great inside my gear cabinet so hardwired makes sure I can push 1080p reliably, and the optical out I use for wireless headphones. It looks like they're now selling an ethernet dongle compatible with the new fire tv box...that has itself become a dongle. I think I may have been dongle Incepted.

34 points by uyoakaoma 9y ago

>Amazon today introduced a new Fire TV with HDR and 4K capabilities, which marks the first time the device has offered the higher-resolution video. Wait, what? There's been a 4K Amazon TV for ages. If they're talking about the new frame-rate and HDR, that's not resolution, is it?

dragonwriter 9y ago
> If they're talking about the new frame-rate and HDR, that's not resolution, is it? AFAIK, yes and no (respectively), strictly speaking. More fully: Frame rate is temporal resolution. HDR is increased range in luminosity, but does not (AFAIK) imply greater resolution in that dimension.
- blackguardx 9y ago
  HDR is High Dynamic Range. Dynamic range is unitless, which allows comparisons different systems with different signal levels. The dynamic range compares the highest signal level to the lowest level. Higher dynamic range implies higher resolution because if you hold the maximum output as a constant, one can resolve smaller signals with a better DR spec.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    I think (though I may be wrong) this misses a difference between range and resolution. Yes, you can get lower absolute levels of the high end is constant, but HDR doesn't imply you can represent smaller differences in illumination level within the representable range of levels.
    - blackguardx 9y ago
      >HDR doesn't imply you can represent smaller differences in illumination level within the representable range of levels. It doesn't? Dynamic range and resolution are directly related. Dynamic range isn't "range." This is why an HDR image has greater bit depth (more bits). Greater bit depth implies more resolution. All things being equal, a system with higher dynamic range can convey smaller signals. More accurate information is able to be conveyed, which requires greater bit depth. There are even formulas for calculating the theoretical dynamic range of a digital system given its bit depth.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Dynamic range isn't "range." In the application under discussion, it's the ratio between the highest and lowest representable illumination level. This is, I think, very clearly “range” in the usual sense. > Greater bit depth implies more resolution. But it doesn't, in the same way that frame rate (temporal resolution) differs from run time (temporal range). Now, the difference is in the what the output device does with the data (since data intended to support one use could be interpreted and used for the other, with a 120fps stream played at 24fps with 5 times the runtime, or vice versa), not the representation format, but the whole point of HDR is representing wider differences in illumination, not resolving smaller differences between the same minimum and maximum.
jdboyd 9y ago
They did issue a correction at the bottom of the article to that effect.

thebiglebrewski 9y ago

[baleted]

blacksmith_tb 9y ago
Wrong article? That typo is on their coverage of the new Echo...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

dmix 9y ago

> Dolby Atmos integration Anyone try this new Dolby tech out yet in practice? Is it a meaningful improvement?

mastax 9y ago
I'm worried that 'Dolby Atmos' is a catch-all for a bunch of unrelated audio tech, but the positional audio in Overwatch (game) is noticeably better than most games have.
- dmix 9y ago
  Well, I meant the "360 sound" part, where it goes above/below(?) your head instead of just around you. I'm starting to see Atmos in far more products and content now where it's going beyond early adopter territory, so I'm curious if it's a noticeable improvement, ala 4k.
WorldMaker 9y ago
I've noticed a difference in rewatching movies in different theaters in my city (one with Atmos support, the other without), but not enough of a difference I've felt a need to buy new home theater hardware for it.
kodt 9y ago
Yes it is good, however you need at least a 5.1.2 surround sound system to take advantage. And the 2 height speakers ideally need to be installed in your ceiling. Although they do have Atmos add on speakers that bounce the sound off the ceiling. To take full advantage you need 4 ceiling speakers.

drewg123 9y ago

But will it have YouTube? Actually, that's a serious question. I'm looking for a box to recommend to a friend who's going to cut the cord. I think the Nvidia Shield will be better for them due to being real android tv, and because I have one and know the Android TV ecosystem better... It looks like FireTV still doesn't have an easy way to install Kodi from the appstore, but requires that it be side-loaded. And it looks like the Youtube app in the amazon app store is written by Amazon. The icon makes it look not not legit..

ashark 9y ago
Side loading Kodi only takes a few minutes. I've got it on my FireTV—it's almost all I use it for, in fact.
- drewg123 9y ago
  I had a fire stick, and did the same thing. But side-loading was a pain, especially for updates. On my Shield, I get all the updates via the Play store.
- ddmf 9y ago
  I moved from raspberry pi's to amazon fire sticks and sideloading kodi is now down to a minute or so installation - including copying my advanced.xml over from a unc path so it uses the shared db. Life has been so much easier since.
inthewoods 9y ago
What about a Roku?
- ashark 9y ago
  Parent mentions Kodi, which isn't on Roku at all (it's not written in Roku's Brightscript, obviously, so porting it would be a full re-write)
mmanfrin 9y ago
Shield is still the best settop, bar none.

dubyah 9y ago

https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-tv/docs/device-and-platform-specifications https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-t... Amlogic S905Z

benbristow 9y ago

What's the advantage of buying this over the current Amazon Box?

jdboyd 9y ago
The current amazon box is discontinued. Also, this does HDR.
- benbristow 9y ago
  Will it still get updates? I don't need 4K nor do I need HDR.
kodt 9y ago
This one supports HDR and 60fps 4K video, while the last one only supported 30fps 4K video and did not support HDR.
thought_alarm 9y ago
The banner ads are now in 4K/HDR.

valuearb 9y ago

"But the Apple TV starts at $179, which is more than twice as expensive as this latest generation of Amazon’s Fire TV. That makes for a rough comparison if you’re Apple. Amazon has chosen to support HDR10 but not Dolby Vision for HDR playback. On the audio side, the device offers Dolby Atmos integration. That’s an odd switch-around from Apple’s approach with the Apple TV 4K, which outputs both Dolby Vision and HDR10 but not the Atmos audio format." AppleTV Atmos support is coming. And I don't think the comparison is rough. Apple is trying to make the best TV box not the cheapest. They should never cut the price, instead they should fix their rough edges, including the remote. I have no problem paying an extra $100 for a TV box I'm going to use every night if it's UI is the best, and it's content offerings are among the best.

Razengan 9y ago
The Apple TV is also a surprisingly good games console.
- thefalcon 9y ago
  I wish they sold a version with a bundled controller: not because I had any trouble buying a MiFi controller separately, but because the fact that I had to do that means that there are far too few games that are built expecting me to have a controller. If there was a bundle, I imagine it would booster developer support as well. Also I think it would help justify its comparable-to-console pricing to many people.
jrs95 9y ago
I see this sort of thing a lot with comparisons between Amazon's products and their competitors. If all you're looking at is features and price, then Amazon looks like the winner most of the time. But having used both of these products, I'd go with an Apple TV over this without hesitation. The latest Apple TV is the only smart TV device I've used without having relatively serious bugs pop up on a fairly regular basis. The Nexus Player I had was so bad about this I really would have preferred having a DVD player and a Blockbuster to streaming...

gallerdude 9y ago

Ok, so this has the potential to age horrifically, but where do we go after 4K + HDR? I don't think VR is going to be the thing, and 3D has similar problems. 8K might be a thing, but even if that catches on, then I'll heavily doubt 16K will be. After those... RAW video?

kodt 9y ago
I agree 8K will be a thing... eventually. 16k less likely. there is already HDR10+, which is an improvement on HDR10 so I imagine better HDR formats and displays will be coming. 35mm films can't really scan much higher than 5k/6k, so we might be reaching the limit on new formats fairly soon. Many digital films today are shot in 2k or 4k, or have effects mastered at 2k. I imagine that won't translate very well to an 8k screen vs just a 4k.

cranjice 9y ago

I did a double take after seeing the device. That droopy built in cord seems like a really poor design choice. Aside from it being ugly there's potential for the cord to fail considering the device hangs from it and it can't be replaced. They even seem to be hiding it behind the remote in the amazon stock photos.

etblg 9y ago
Chromecast has the same design for some reason (I think it has a magnet on it, but still).
mbrookes 9y ago
Ugly is kind of irrelevant when it's plugged into the back of the TV. The back of most TVs are ugly anyway! I don't think the device will fail from hanging, as it's static, but it will almost certainly put strain on some varieties of HDMI connector, depending on orientation, and may be prone to falling out. One solution might have been an adhesive velcro pad to attach the device to the TV. In any case, it's pretty impressive to offer 4K in a device a fraction of the size of the new Apple TV, and powered only from the HDMI port. Now all they need is more than a couple of dozen titles in 4K!
- suninwinter 9y ago
  > powered only from the HDMI port Looking at the marketing material, it’s clear Amazon is trying to make people think this and hope they’re not disappointed when they find out that, yes, they still have to plug it into the wall. There’s only one tiny image on the product page [1] that shows the power cord coming out. Every other image is very careful to show it from an angle that makes it seem like the HDMI cable is the only cable. There is text that mentions the power cable, but you have to scroll down pretty far (about 60% of the way down) before you’ll see it. [1] https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Ultra-Remote-Streaming-Player/dp/B01N32NCPM https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Ultra-Remote-Streaming-Player...

singularity2001 9y ago

"Alexa play bloodline on netflix on fire tv" instead of just "play bloodline". UI fails are not limited to guis. Yes it IS technicaly feasible to figure out that you are alone in your room and that you want to play movies on your default app + device. No strong AI needed for that yet.

xref 9y ago

No ethernet, no optical out, no usb, dang this really limits my options from how I am using my gen 1 fire tv. Wifi isn't great inside my gear cabinet so hardwired makes sure I can push 1080p reliably, and the optical out I use for wireless headphones. It looks like they're now selling an ethernet dongle compatible with the new fire tv box...that has itself become a dongle. I think I may have been dongle Incepted.