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This is virtually the same reply that every single "rust would help with safety" comment gets every time without fail. And despite those tools, mistakes occur i

This is virtually the same reply that every single "rust would help with safety" comment gets every time without fail. And despite those tools, mistakes occur in the most critical of codebases. In fact just early today a patch to LKML was being mocked because some pointer manipulation in C was clearly buggy and uncaught due to the lack of safety and sophistication of the type system.

dikaiosune 9y ago
I don't think this is quite the template reply (and if you check my HN comment history, I think you might see that I'm quite familiar with receiving the template replies!), what I meant to say is that it'd be much higher leverage to rewrite other parts of Fuchsia in Rust than to rewrite Zircon.
- colemickens 9y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth or anything. I am quite curious which parts you think would better benefit from a rewrite in a safer language if you might elaborate. Thanks!
  - dikaiosune 9y ago
    Oh no worries, I might have come off a bit defensive there. I think one of the clearest examples would be drivers -- they might be properly sandboxed by a good microkernel, but they are notoriously buggy/crashy/incorrect. If I remember correctly one of the Fuchsia team members told me that they were going to support drivers written in Rust, but I could be completely wrong. Filesystems, the network stack, whatever horrifying systemd equivalent Fuchsia grows, etc. are all examples of things I would advocate for writing in Rust before focusing on the kernel. All of these things are still security/reliability sensitive, all still terrible by Rustacean safety standards in most OSes, and conveniently don't have to be built directly as part of the kernel when you're doing a microkernel. Just spitballing, of course.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Some filesystems and the network stack from Fuchsia are written in Go.
      - dikaiosune 9y ago
        Cool! Accomplishes many of the same goals that doing it in Rust would, arguably. I would be curious to hear about what sort of latency-management techniques they've used to build an FS in a GC'd environment.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Here is some more information https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror?language=go https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror?language=go https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/2xuYHcP0Fdc/tKb1PgTXAwAJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/2xuYHcP0Fdc/tKb1P... Regarding your specific latency issue with a GC systems language, here is a Mesa/Cedar example about a network file server. http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/SRC-RR-6.pdf http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/SRC-RR-6.pdf

dikaiosune 9y ago

I don't think this is quite the template reply (and if you check my HN comment history, I think you might see that I'm quite familiar with receiving the template replies!), what I meant to say is that it'd be much higher leverage to rewrite other parts of Fuchsia in Rust than to rewrite Zircon.

colemickens 9y ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth or anything. I am quite curious which parts you think would better benefit from a rewrite in a safer language if you might elaborate. Thanks!
- dikaiosune 9y ago
  Oh no worries, I might have come off a bit defensive there. I think one of the clearest examples would be drivers -- they might be properly sandboxed by a good microkernel, but they are notoriously buggy/crashy/incorrect. If I remember correctly one of the Fuchsia team members told me that they were going to support drivers written in Rust, but I could be completely wrong. Filesystems, the network stack, whatever horrifying systemd equivalent Fuchsia grows, etc. are all examples of things I would advocate for writing in Rust before focusing on the kernel. All of these things are still security/reliability sensitive, all still terrible by Rustacean safety standards in most OSes, and conveniently don't have to be built directly as part of the kernel when you're doing a microkernel. Just spitballing, of course.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Some filesystems and the network stack from Fuchsia are written in Go.
    - dikaiosune 9y ago
      Cool! Accomplishes many of the same goals that doing it in Rust would, arguably. I would be curious to hear about what sort of latency-management techniques they've used to build an FS in a GC'd environment.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        Here is some more information https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror?language=go https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror?language=go https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/2xuYHcP0Fdc/tKb1PgTXAwAJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/2xuYHcP0Fdc/tKb1P... Regarding your specific latency issue with a GC systems language, here is a Mesa/Cedar example about a network file server. http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/SRC-RR-6.pdf http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/SRC-RR-6.pdf