5 ms·

There's a difference between Stormfront, a neo-nazi site, and "a conservative bent"

by rmc 9y ago

katastic 9y ago
Tell that to Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Google examples if you dare.
briholt 9y ago
Define it. Then define it in such a way that everyone advocating this censorship will agree too. Then pledge that when people start pushing for additional censorship you'll vehemently push back.
- rmc 9y ago
  You can start off with the definition in German law: publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism .. publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that violates the dignity of the victims by approving of, glorifying, or justifying National Socialist rule of arbitrary force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#...
  - briholt 9y ago
    So obviously people like Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Donald Trump, Milo Yiannopoulos, Ben Shapiro, Charles Murray, and George W. Bush don't qualify. So just reply with some links where you've been defending their right to speak as loudly as you've insisted Nazi censorship won't impair it. Because surely no decent person you would insist on clear lines of censorship and then quietly disappear as violent rioters use that reasoning to slander and silence people. Edit: I'll take that downvote as a sign of "I casually claim censorship can be limited while doing nothing to stop its expansion."
cm2187 9y ago
There is an increasing (and worrying) trend among liberals to call racist or misogynist anyone who doesn't demonstrate enthusiasm for the cause of the day. Concerns about being censored when accused of racism isn't exactly irrational paranoia. A recent example of what appears to be a moderate, democrat voting professor experiencing it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546704/Professor-called-racist-asked-resign-students.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546704/Professor-ca...
- yahna 9y ago
  > There is an increasing (and worrying) trend No there isn't. That's like saying there is an increased trend among conservatives in general towards being Nazis. There is an increase in the activity of the lunatic fringes on both sides. Ranging from hardcore tea party people to "OMG white people are the worst" morons all the way to antifa and neo-nazis.
  - rmc 9y ago
    > That's like saying there is an increased trend among conservatives in general towards being Nazis. Someone compared the election manifesto from the British National Party (who are basically neo-Nazi) for the 2005 UK election, and the 2017 manifesto from the Conservative party, the main centre-right party in the UK. And there were an awful lot of similarities which the Conservatives wouldn't have put in before. https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/04/23/compared-tories-policies-bnp-manifesto-bloody-hell-video/ https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/04/23/compared-tories-polic...
    - cm2187 9y ago
      There is an irony in you posting two answers within minutes, one likening a british political party to neo-nazis, and the other highlighting that you make a distinction between neo-nazis and other forms of racism.
      - rmc 9y ago
        The British National Party used to be called the British Union of Fascists. Nick Griffin was leader for 15 years, until 2014, and is a holocaust denier. Until 2010, they had an official "whites only" membership policy. It's illegal for police, fire frighters, and prison officers in the UK to be a BNP member. The Church of England forbids it's priests from being members. It's not much of a stretch. If you're not British you might think "oh they are just another political party", that's not true at all.

There's a difference between Stormfront, a neo-nazi site, and "a conservative bent"

by rmc 9y ago

There's a difference between Stormfront, a neo-nazi site, and "a conservative bent"

katastic 9y ago

Tell that to Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Google examples if you dare.

briholt 9y ago

Define it. Then define it in such a way that everyone advocating this censorship will agree too. Then pledge that when people start pushing for additional censorship you'll vehemently push back.

rmc 9y ago
You can start off with the definition in German law: publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism .. publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that violates the dignity of the victims by approving of, glorifying, or justifying National Socialist rule of arbitrary force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#...
- briholt 9y ago
  So obviously people like Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Donald Trump, Milo Yiannopoulos, Ben Shapiro, Charles Murray, and George W. Bush don't qualify. So just reply with some links where you've been defending their right to speak as loudly as you've insisted Nazi censorship won't impair it. Because surely no decent person you would insist on clear lines of censorship and then quietly disappear as violent rioters use that reasoning to slander and silence people. Edit: I'll take that downvote as a sign of "I casually claim censorship can be limited while doing nothing to stop its expansion."

cm2187 9y ago

There is an increasing (and worrying) trend among liberals to call racist or misogynist anyone who doesn't demonstrate enthusiasm for the cause of the day. Concerns about being censored when accused of racism isn't exactly irrational paranoia. A recent example of what appears to be a moderate, democrat voting professor experiencing it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546704/Professor-called-racist-asked-resign-students.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546704/Professor-ca...

yahna 9y ago
> There is an increasing (and worrying) trend No there isn't. That's like saying there is an increased trend among conservatives in general towards being Nazis. There is an increase in the activity of the lunatic fringes on both sides. Ranging from hardcore tea party people to "OMG white people are the worst" morons all the way to antifa and neo-nazis.
- rmc 9y ago
  > That's like saying there is an increased trend among conservatives in general towards being Nazis. Someone compared the election manifesto from the British National Party (who are basically neo-Nazi) for the 2005 UK election, and the 2017 manifesto from the Conservative party, the main centre-right party in the UK. And there were an awful lot of similarities which the Conservatives wouldn't have put in before. https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/04/23/compared-tories-policies-bnp-manifesto-bloody-hell-video/ https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/04/23/compared-tories-polic...
  - cm2187 9y ago
    There is an irony in you posting two answers within minutes, one likening a british political party to neo-nazis, and the other highlighting that you make a distinction between neo-nazis and other forms of racism.
    - rmc 9y ago
      The British National Party used to be called the British Union of Fascists. Nick Griffin was leader for 15 years, until 2014, and is a holocaust denier. Until 2010, they had an official "whites only" membership policy. It's illegal for police, fire frighters, and prison officers in the UK to be a BNP member. The Church of England forbids it's priests from being members. It's not much of a stretch. If you're not British you might think "oh they are just another political party", that's not true at all.