5 ms·

> What is iPhone bad at? ecosystem lock-in, not allowing un-vetted apps to run, walled-garden approach to everything. based on comments i see here, some people

> What is iPhone bad at? ecosystem lock-in, not allowing un-vetted apps to run, walled-garden approach to everything. based on comments i see here, some people are mad enough about this to avoid iPhones altogether. that's where i'd start, if i were trying to launch a smartphone platform today.

Synaesthesia 9y ago
One can basically level the same charges against Android, and indeed the entire tech industry for having closed source chips, firmware, baseband etc. It’s unfortunate that we’re all so beholden to corporate behemoths and that we don’t have a totally, top-to-bottom free, open and democratic hardware&software in technology.
dmitriid 9y ago
A very wrong and a very short-sighted approach. Other comments have already pointed this out. Two things: - ease of use - privacy These two may sell the product even if it lacks certain features. - ecosystem (as in "do I have an app for that?") This is essential (pun intended), but Essential is already running Android, so they are covered there.
bm1362 9y ago
These things allow iOS to remain relatively secure for end-users while Android continues to be a wasteland of exploits. I'd argue I want my phone to be as secure as possible, more so than my laptop, since it is my authenticator for most of my services. Most end users are satisfied with their iOS devices and don't try and use it as a ssh machine or toolkit. They install Candy Crush and some Google apps at most.
xenadu02 9y ago
And when someone's phone ends up with spyware, bitcoin miners, and they're signed up for 12 different $10/month "premium" SMS text services do you believe they'll be happy to be outside the walled garden? I consider myself a nerd and I find it amazing that some of my fellow nerds learned absolutely nothing from IE and ActiveX: Users will always click Yes/OK/Install/Please_own_me. Providing an "Allow side-loading" checkbox guarantees these people will get completely and utterly owned. The latest free-to-play game will promise a "Chest of Gems" if they check the checkbox. Some spyware purveyors and scummy ad networks are even now prompting iOS users to install mobile provisioning profiles and the users willingly tap through multiple prompts to install them despite the scary warnings! These users end up with MITM VPN profiles installed that redirect all traffic or get extra spam email accounts setup. I enjoy having a gatekeeper that keeps most of the riff-raff out. I haven't always agreed with the decisions but I've never been secretly signed up for a premium SMS plan, had a coin miner installed, had my browsing history or contacts harvested, etc.
- allenbrunson 9y ago
  i could not possibly be more invested than i am in the apple universe. i've used nothing but macs since 2001. i've never owned a smartphone that didn't have an apple logo on it. i make my living writing ios apps. i am mostly pretty happy with apple's choices. having said that, i think apple goes too far. they could make things safe for the average grandma while also allowing more latitude for tinkerers. they should allow you to hook up your phone to different backend services other than their own icloud. they should not be trying to take 30 percent from every transaction that happens in ios apps. they should allow you to buy music and movies from places other than their store that works just as seamlessly for the end user, with no friction. and so on. android, on the other hand, goes too far in the other direction. google is so hands-off that they let device manufacturers get away with murder, at the expense of their users. there is a happy place in the middle that somebody with deep pockets could occupy, if they wanted to.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
s73ver_ 9y ago
Some people, but clearly not a lot of people.
eridius 9y ago
You listed the exact same thing 3 times. And yeah, some people care about this, but most users don't. A new entrant to the market that uses this as the defining distinguishing feature isn't going to succeed.
- allenbrunson 9y ago
  > You listed the exact same thing 3 times. nope, not at all true, and i already covered many of the details over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350080 > A new entrant to the market that uses this as the defining distinguishing feature isn't going to succeed. when the iphone came out, the critics said it was nothing new: not the first phone with a touch screen, not the first phone that could play music, not the first phone that allowed you to browse the web, etc. all true. and also, way too expensive. the people at blackberry watched steve jobs' original keynote and declared that it wasn't even possible! and yet the iphone succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams. there is always a market for doing things that seem to have been done before, but getting the details exactly right, for a certain set of users. i think allowing a whole ecosystem to blossom around a phone, provided by many different companies instead of just apple, done with exactly the right amount of curation, is just such an idea.
Aloha 9y ago
I consider those to be minor advantages - I want my phone to be as close to an appliance as it can be - those things help it be closer to an appliance.

Synaesthesia 9y ago

One can basically level the same charges against Android, and indeed the entire tech industry for having closed source chips, firmware, baseband etc. It’s unfortunate that we’re all so beholden to corporate behemoths and that we don’t have a totally, top-to-bottom free, open and democratic hardware&software in technology.

dmitriid 9y ago

A very wrong and a very short-sighted approach. Other comments have already pointed this out. Two things: - ease of use - privacy These two may sell the product even if it lacks certain features. - ecosystem (as in "do I have an app for that?") This is essential (pun intended), but Essential is already running Android, so they are covered there.

bm1362 9y ago

These things allow iOS to remain relatively secure for end-users while Android continues to be a wasteland of exploits. I'd argue I want my phone to be as secure as possible, more so than my laptop, since it is my authenticator for most of my services. Most end users are satisfied with their iOS devices and don't try and use it as a ssh machine or toolkit. They install Candy Crush and some Google apps at most.

xenadu02 9y ago

And when someone's phone ends up with spyware, bitcoin miners, and they're signed up for 12 different $10/month "premium" SMS text services do you believe they'll be happy to be outside the walled garden? I consider myself a nerd and I find it amazing that some of my fellow nerds learned absolutely nothing from IE and ActiveX: Users will always click Yes/OK/Install/Please_own_me. Providing an "Allow side-loading" checkbox guarantees these people will get completely and utterly owned. The latest free-to-play game will promise a "Chest of Gems" if they check the checkbox. Some spyware purveyors and scummy ad networks are even now prompting iOS users to install mobile provisioning profiles and the users willingly tap through multiple prompts to install them despite the scary warnings! These users end up with MITM VPN profiles installed that redirect all traffic or get extra spam email accounts setup. I enjoy having a gatekeeper that keeps most of the riff-raff out. I haven't always agreed with the decisions but I've never been secretly signed up for a premium SMS plan, had a coin miner installed, had my browsing history or contacts harvested, etc.

allenbrunson 9y ago
i could not possibly be more invested than i am in the apple universe. i've used nothing but macs since 2001. i've never owned a smartphone that didn't have an apple logo on it. i make my living writing ios apps. i am mostly pretty happy with apple's choices. having said that, i think apple goes too far. they could make things safe for the average grandma while also allowing more latitude for tinkerers. they should allow you to hook up your phone to different backend services other than their own icloud. they should not be trying to take 30 percent from every transaction that happens in ios apps. they should allow you to buy music and movies from places other than their store that works just as seamlessly for the end user, with no friction. and so on. android, on the other hand, goes too far in the other direction. google is so hands-off that they let device manufacturers get away with murder, at the expense of their users. there is a happy place in the middle that somebody with deep pockets could occupy, if they wanted to.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

s73ver_ 9y ago

Some people, but clearly not a lot of people.

eridius 9y ago

You listed the exact same thing 3 times. And yeah, some people care about this, but most users don't. A new entrant to the market that uses this as the defining distinguishing feature isn't going to succeed.

allenbrunson 9y ago
> You listed the exact same thing 3 times. nope, not at all true, and i already covered many of the details over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350080 > A new entrant to the market that uses this as the defining distinguishing feature isn't going to succeed. when the iphone came out, the critics said it was nothing new: not the first phone with a touch screen, not the first phone that could play music, not the first phone that allowed you to browse the web, etc. all true. and also, way too expensive. the people at blackberry watched steve jobs' original keynote and declared that it wasn't even possible! and yet the iphone succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams. there is always a market for doing things that seem to have been done before, but getting the details exactly right, for a certain set of users. i think allowing a whole ecosystem to blossom around a phone, provided by many different companies instead of just apple, done with exactly the right amount of curation, is just such an idea.

Aloha 9y ago

I consider those to be minor advantages - I want my phone to be as close to an appliance as it can be - those things help it be closer to an appliance.