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> In September 2015, the multi-millionaire engineer at the heart of the patent and trade secrets lawsuit between Uber and Waymo, Google’s self-driving car compa

by Isamu 9y ago

> In September 2015, the multi-millionaire engineer at the heart of the patent and trade secrets lawsuit between Uber and Waymo, Google’s self-driving car company, founded a religious organization called Way of the Future. Its purpose, according to previously unreported state filings, is nothing less than to “develop and promote the realization of a Godhead based on Artificial Intelligence.” I'm sure this is strictly on the up-and-up, but in the 70's this was a classic tax dodge that many folks tried. The problem was if you got caught in any inconsistencies where, for some purposes, you seemed to be acting as a regular business while representing yourself as a church to the govt. > Way of the Future has not yet responded to requests for the forms it must submit annually to the Internal Revenue Service (and make publically available), as a non-profit religious corporation. Is this true? All churches must make their IRS returns available?

dmix 9y ago
> I'm sure this is strictly on the up-and-up, but in the 70's this was a classic tax dodge that many folks tried. And for this reason it's incredibly difficult to get tax-free status after the whole "new religion" movement in the 1970s. The bar the IRS sets is far higher now. Which is why this is very likely not the motivation here... any lawyer would tell you this and I'm sure this guy has plenty of lawyers.
- Isamu 9y ago
  > And for this reason it's incredibly difficult to get tax-free status Churches still have it pretty easy, they are excepted from having to file for tax exempt status, don't have to file an annual information return. They are not required to obtain 501(c)(3) status. Legitimate churches, that is. The IRS is free to question your status as a church but is unlikely to if, for instance, you are part of a recognized national church organization, or otherwise function as a regular church.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    There pretty much is no such thing as an illegitimate church in the USA. The IRS is too scared to touch that anymore. John Oliver famously made fun of this on a segment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
    - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
      Well yeah, after operation Snow White I wouldn't want to poke the hornets nest.
- fhood 9y ago
  Didn't John Oliver manage it without too much trouble?
  - dspillett 9y ago
    Setting up a church is easy in a great many respects. Getting tax-exempt status for it and/or your activities is far more involved I would expect.
    - fhood 9y ago
      I believe that was what he did
- wils1245 9y ago
  It seems like this guy has done a few things most lawyers would advise against.
- pasbesoin 9y ago
  Makes me think of Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". Although arguably, they really had something going for them. Anyway, always interesting to hold Heinlein's writing up to contemporary society. Or rather, to have comparisons spontaneously appear in one's thinking as one surveys circumstances.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    There's some claims that Heinlein and L. Ron Hubbard had discussions about religion prior to the writing of Stranger in a Strange Land and founding of Scientology. https://everything2.com/title/The+Heinlein+-+Hubbard+Wager+Myth https://everything2.com/title/The+Heinlein+-+Hubbard+Wager+M...
  - bobsil1 9y ago
    Bot god = PK Dick's "The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Stigmata_of_Palmer_Eldritch#Plot_summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Stigmata_of_Palmer_E...
Xeoncross 9y ago
There are 501(c)(3) "non-profit religious corporations" and 508(c)(1)(a) "non-profit religious churches". Only 501(c)(3) must submit documents to the IRS because they are a "corporation". As a side note, 508(c)(1)(a) can also speak about politics while 501(c)(3) are forbidden from doing so.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > As a side note, 508(c)(1)(a) can also speak about politics while 501(c)(3) are forbidden from doing so. Er, that's not exactly true. 501(c)(3) aren't forbidden from speaking about politics. There are restrictions on the ways in which they can (e.g. no overt party affiliation) and the degree to which they can do so. For example, they can spend time lobbying, but only 10% of their time and only 10% of their budget (I don't remember if it's still 10%, but that used to be the number). Oftentimes, 501(c)(3)s will have a separate, associated entity that they use for their political lobbying, to avoid having to keep track of their resources when mixed and prove that it's under this threshold.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  501(c)(3)s are not required to be corporations. 508 doesn't provide an alternative kind of tax exempt organization, it identifies rules governing 501(c)(3), and 508(c) identifies exceptions to the rules governing which 501(c)(3) orgs are presumed to be “private foundations” unless they notify the Treasury otherwise. All organizations described by the exception in 508(c)(1)(a) are, by definition, organizations also described in 501(c)(3), and so governed by the rules applicable to such organizations. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/508 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/508
fjsolwmv 9y ago
This is the history of Scientology. They have to file papers, not publish tax returns
jackmott 9y ago
I guess when you are a creepy psychopath you gotta go ALL THE WAY. wow.
santaclaus 9y ago
> Way of the Future Is this SV religion on twitter that thinks the blockchain is actually a sentient AI attempting to infiltrate the global banking system?
walshemj 9y ago
More likely a serious mid /early life breakdown

by Isamu 9y ago

dmix 9y ago

> I'm sure this is strictly on the up-and-up, but in the 70's this was a classic tax dodge that many folks tried. And for this reason it's incredibly difficult to get tax-free status after the whole "new religion" movement in the 1970s. The bar the IRS sets is far higher now. Which is why this is very likely not the motivation here... any lawyer would tell you this and I'm sure this guy has plenty of lawyers.

Isamu 9y ago
> And for this reason it's incredibly difficult to get tax-free status Churches still have it pretty easy, they are excepted from having to file for tax exempt status, don't have to file an annual information return. They are not required to obtain 501(c)(3) status. Legitimate churches, that is. The IRS is free to question your status as a church but is unlikely to if, for instance, you are part of a recognized national church organization, or otherwise function as a regular church.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  There pretty much is no such thing as an illegitimate church in the USA. The IRS is too scared to touch that anymore. John Oliver famously made fun of this on a segment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
  - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
    Well yeah, after operation Snow White I wouldn't want to poke the hornets nest.
fhood 9y ago
Didn't John Oliver manage it without too much trouble?
- dspillett 9y ago
  Setting up a church is easy in a great many respects. Getting tax-exempt status for it and/or your activities is far more involved I would expect.
  - fhood 9y ago
    I believe that was what he did
wils1245 9y ago
It seems like this guy has done a few things most lawyers would advise against.
pasbesoin 9y ago
Makes me think of Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". Although arguably, they really had something going for them. Anyway, always interesting to hold Heinlein's writing up to contemporary society. Or rather, to have comparisons spontaneously appear in one's thinking as one surveys circumstances.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  There's some claims that Heinlein and L. Ron Hubbard had discussions about religion prior to the writing of Stranger in a Strange Land and founding of Scientology. https://everything2.com/title/The+Heinlein+-+Hubbard+Wager+Myth https://everything2.com/title/The+Heinlein+-+Hubbard+Wager+M...
- bobsil1 9y ago
  Bot god = PK Dick's "The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Stigmata_of_Palmer_Eldritch#Plot_summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Stigmata_of_Palmer_E...

Xeoncross 9y ago

There are 501(c)(3) "non-profit religious corporations" and 508(c)(1)(a) "non-profit religious churches". Only 501(c)(3) must submit documents to the IRS because they are a "corporation". As a side note, 508(c)(1)(a) can also speak about politics while 501(c)(3) are forbidden from doing so.

chimeracoder 9y ago
> As a side note, 508(c)(1)(a) can also speak about politics while 501(c)(3) are forbidden from doing so. Er, that's not exactly true. 501(c)(3) aren't forbidden from speaking about politics. There are restrictions on the ways in which they can (e.g. no overt party affiliation) and the degree to which they can do so. For example, they can spend time lobbying, but only 10% of their time and only 10% of their budget (I don't remember if it's still 10%, but that used to be the number). Oftentimes, 501(c)(3)s will have a separate, associated entity that they use for their political lobbying, to avoid having to keep track of their resources when mixed and prove that it's under this threshold.
dragonwriter 9y ago
501(c)(3)s are not required to be corporations. 508 doesn't provide an alternative kind of tax exempt organization, it identifies rules governing 501(c)(3), and 508(c) identifies exceptions to the rules governing which 501(c)(3) orgs are presumed to be “private foundations” unless they notify the Treasury otherwise. All organizations described by the exception in 508(c)(1)(a) are, by definition, organizations also described in 501(c)(3), and so governed by the rules applicable to such organizations. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/508 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/508

fjsolwmv 9y ago

This is the history of Scientology. They have to file papers, not publish tax returns

jackmott 9y ago

I guess when you are a creepy psychopath you gotta go ALL THE WAY. wow.

santaclaus 9y ago

> Way of the Future Is this SV religion on twitter that thinks the blockchain is actually a sentient AI attempting to infiltrate the global banking system?

walshemj 9y ago

More likely a serious mid /early life breakdown