5 ms·

One of the things that made me stop reading him was when it became clear his "I'm totally retired and you can be too!" thing was BS. At the time he had like 3 p

by ashark 9y ago

One of the things that made me stop reading him was when it became clear his "I'm totally retired and you can be too!" thing was BS. At the time he had like 3 part-time jobs (the blog, landlord, handyman, IIRC), with his savings being large enough that he could make a stupid "hey, you should stop paying so much for health insurance you idiots! Turns our if you have a lot of money in the bank and the skills to land a job with family coverage in a matter of months if you need to, you only need catastrophic coverage! I don't know why people say buying your own health insurance is expensive, it's not!" post, but not enough to totally retire on it (he seemed to be letting his investments grow by spending mostly his part-time job money, at the time, rather than investment returns)

vasilipupkin 9y ago
Exactly. Seems totally stupid. Like why is it better to have 3 jobs ( blog, handyman, landlord ) than one normal job ? to me retired is a person who specifically lives strictly off the money they have. I mean sure, if you prefer to work as a handyman or run a successful blog, by all means do that, but calling yourself retired seems inaccurate. I am retired but I have 3 jobs. ooook.
- ahelwer 9y ago
  Ha. The MMM community calls people espousing this sort of view "the retirement police". I have no idea what this complaint intends to accomplish beyond adherence to some kind of radical linguistic prescriptivism. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    And that's another thing that I don't particularly like about MMM: the incessant shouting down and name calling of anything and anybody that dares to question him and his statements.
    - ahelwer 9y ago
      This would be a meaningful comment if your critique weren't appallingly mundane.
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        I don't follow you but that probably makes me a complainypants.
        ahelwer 9y ago
        Some critiques or thoughts occur to people near-universally upon exposure to an idea. For example, the HN comments section on scientific studies showing an association between X and Y are packed with people spitballing explanatory theories after a few minutes' thought. Given a certain level of legitimacy of the idea source, it is basically insulting to assume you've thought of a meaningful critique within minutes. Most of the time, these critiques are (to reuse my term) appallingly mundane, obviously considered by the idea source (to assume otherwise is to assume they're idiots, hence insulting) and easily addressed. Beyond this, since many, many people have the exact same mundane thought, it becomes useful to have a shorthand dismissal - here, retirement police.
        jacquesm 9y ago
        > Some critiques or thoughts occur to people near-universally upon exposure to an idea. Indeed. And in some cases those critiques are spot on and shouting them down or inventing catchy names for those critiquing the ideas / principles / choice of definition of words does not necessarily mean that they are wrong. This is an element of cult behavior where the cult is trained to respond reflexively to criticisms and in fact is egged on to shout down outsiders. See also: certain politicians. I think this kind of behavior rather cheapens the whole MMM brand but if you feel that it strengthens it then that is your privilege. In my not so humble opinion as soon as you resort to namecalling instead of reasoned debate then you probably would have lost the debate. MMM is rife with such traits and even though I very much subscribe to most of the basic tenets of the way he lives I would not respond to those who question my choices or choice of words by calling them names. Instead I'd try to figure out how our situations differ and to address the criticism directly rather than to try to drive a wedge between those that criticize and those that are 'true followers'. After all, if a critique is mundane then it is nothing a FAQ can't answer. I dislike cliques, always have and probably always will.
  - stlHusker 9y ago
    You can't claim to be financially independent and come back two years later with this gem: "The secret is that my wife is no longer really retired, and in fact she started a business that is now big enough to FUND OUR ENTIRE FAMILY'S LIFESTYLE." http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/03/06/etsy-shop/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/03/06/etsy-shop/ If not outright dishonest, it certainly gives the off appearance that you can't put any weight in the numbers he is throwing out. I guess I'm one of those "retirement police" who hates seeing a huckster give bad advice while eschewing talking about the real increase in realized risk you take by retiring early and not considering it in your plan. As one of the previous comments stated: your budget is not static, investment returns are not guaranteed, life events and medical situations change drastically. So when I see, "I made it so can you", I want to respond, "Come back to me when you are 90 and on your death bed and talk with me again." I've seen the cancer treatment bills and what they do to someone with 10x your "financial independent" worth.
    - ashark 9y ago
      One of the key insights about his situation, I think, is that you can live on his under-30K budget and not feel super poor, if you don't have regular 9-5 job with a fixed location, if you don't need to worry much about good schools (can homeschool—these two things combine to mean you can choose inexpensive housing with fewer other trade-offs, which makes it easier to have a paid-off house), and if you already have a lot of money and in-demand skills so you can reasonably have much lower insurance spending generally, and especially health insurance. The overwhelming bulk of his budget savings comes from already having lots of money and from having plenty of time to DIY stuff others might pay for. The rest is useful but relatively marginal. His blog's good for reinforcing that you can spend less money when you already have money, so it's heartening in that it tells you your target income for retirement can be much lower than the income you need pre-retirement. It's not especially helpful for getting there.
    - ahelwer 9y ago
      All of these concerns are real. You'll be reassured to learn that health costs are probably the fourth-most discussed topic in the MMM community, after safe withdrawal rates, asset allocation, and game plans during the next big market crash. MMM's blog posts are very basic - you won't safely retire early if all you do is read them. Fortunately, people are responsible and put slightly more effort into planning their entire lives than uncritically following some blog post on the internet. For example, many people are planning on using a 3.25% withdrawal rate rather than 4%, and have much more in bonds than the 100%-equities-or-bust message on the blog.
- no_wave 9y ago
  He had more than enough money in the bank to do nothing given his expenditures. Turns out he likes making money on his own time.

by ashark 9y ago

vasilipupkin 9y ago

Exactly. Seems totally stupid. Like why is it better to have 3 jobs ( blog, handyman, landlord ) than one normal job ? to me retired is a person who specifically lives strictly off the money they have. I mean sure, if you prefer to work as a handyman or run a successful blog, by all means do that, but calling yourself retired seems inaccurate. I am retired but I have 3 jobs. ooook.

ahelwer 9y ago
Ha. The MMM community calls people espousing this sort of view "the retirement police". I have no idea what this complaint intends to accomplish beyond adherence to some kind of radical linguistic prescriptivism. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...
- jacquesm 9y ago
  And that's another thing that I don't particularly like about MMM: the incessant shouting down and name calling of anything and anybody that dares to question him and his statements.
  - ahelwer 9y ago
    This would be a meaningful comment if your critique weren't appallingly mundane.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      I don't follow you but that probably makes me a complainypants.
      - ahelwer 9y ago
        Some critiques or thoughts occur to people near-universally upon exposure to an idea. For example, the HN comments section on scientific studies showing an association between X and Y are packed with people spitballing explanatory theories after a few minutes' thought. Given a certain level of legitimacy of the idea source, it is basically insulting to assume you've thought of a meaningful critique within minutes. Most of the time, these critiques are (to reuse my term) appallingly mundane, obviously considered by the idea source (to assume otherwise is to assume they're idiots, hence insulting) and easily addressed. Beyond this, since many, many people have the exact same mundane thought, it becomes useful to have a shorthand dismissal - here, retirement police.
        jacquesm 9y ago
        > Some critiques or thoughts occur to people near-universally upon exposure to an idea. Indeed. And in some cases those critiques are spot on and shouting them down or inventing catchy names for those critiquing the ideas / principles / choice of definition of words does not necessarily mean that they are wrong. This is an element of cult behavior where the cult is trained to respond reflexively to criticisms and in fact is egged on to shout down outsiders. See also: certain politicians. I think this kind of behavior rather cheapens the whole MMM brand but if you feel that it strengthens it then that is your privilege. In my not so humble opinion as soon as you resort to namecalling instead of reasoned debate then you probably would have lost the debate. MMM is rife with such traits and even though I very much subscribe to most of the basic tenets of the way he lives I would not respond to those who question my choices or choice of words by calling them names. Instead I'd try to figure out how our situations differ and to address the criticism directly rather than to try to drive a wedge between those that criticize and those that are 'true followers'. After all, if a critique is mundane then it is nothing a FAQ can't answer. I dislike cliques, always have and probably always will.
- stlHusker 9y ago
  You can't claim to be financially independent and come back two years later with this gem: "The secret is that my wife is no longer really retired, and in fact she started a business that is now big enough to FUND OUR ENTIRE FAMILY'S LIFESTYLE." http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/03/06/etsy-shop/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/03/06/etsy-shop/ If not outright dishonest, it certainly gives the off appearance that you can't put any weight in the numbers he is throwing out. I guess I'm one of those "retirement police" who hates seeing a huckster give bad advice while eschewing talking about the real increase in realized risk you take by retiring early and not considering it in your plan. As one of the previous comments stated: your budget is not static, investment returns are not guaranteed, life events and medical situations change drastically. So when I see, "I made it so can you", I want to respond, "Come back to me when you are 90 and on your death bed and talk with me again." I've seen the cancer treatment bills and what they do to someone with 10x your "financial independent" worth.
  - ashark 9y ago
    One of the key insights about his situation, I think, is that you can live on his under-30K budget and not feel super poor, if you don't have regular 9-5 job with a fixed location, if you don't need to worry much about good schools (can homeschool—these two things combine to mean you can choose inexpensive housing with fewer other trade-offs, which makes it easier to have a paid-off house), and if you already have a lot of money and in-demand skills so you can reasonably have much lower insurance spending generally, and especially health insurance. The overwhelming bulk of his budget savings comes from already having lots of money and from having plenty of time to DIY stuff others might pay for. The rest is useful but relatively marginal. His blog's good for reinforcing that you can spend less money when you already have money, so it's heartening in that it tells you your target income for retirement can be much lower than the income you need pre-retirement. It's not especially helpful for getting there.
  - ahelwer 9y ago
    All of these concerns are real. You'll be reassured to learn that health costs are probably the fourth-most discussed topic in the MMM community, after safe withdrawal rates, asset allocation, and game plans during the next big market crash. MMM's blog posts are very basic - you won't safely retire early if all you do is read them. Fortunately, people are responsible and put slightly more effort into planning their entire lives than uncritically following some blog post on the internet. For example, many people are planning on using a 3.25% withdrawal rate rather than 4%, and have much more in bonds than the 100%-equities-or-bust message on the blog.
no_wave 9y ago
He had more than enough money in the bank to do nothing given his expenditures. Turns out he likes making money on his own time.