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You know what's really impressive? Back in the early 2000s I bought a 1991 Honda CRX HF from a friend, and it got about 48 mpg even with 150k miles on the odome

You know what's really impressive? Back in the early 2000s I bought a 1991 Honda CRX HF from a friend, and it got about 48 mpg even with 150k miles on the odometer. That wasn't a hybrid car, just a hyper-efficient gasoline engine in a lightweight body, and it still had enough pep to safely merge on the highway. One would think a modern plug-in hybrid would get well over 70 mpg.

dmm 9y ago
Cars from the 80s and early 90s are not really comparable to modern vehicles. Modern safety regulations add a lot of weight. A good example of this is the Mazda MX-5. The original model from 1989 weighed 940 kg (2,070 lb). In 2009 Mazda made a special lightweight MX-5 to celebrate the 20th anniversary. It was made of special materials and even removed the windshield to save weight. The resulting car weighed 130 lbs more than the 1989 model.
Retric 9y ago
1991 Honda CRX HF has 40 mpg in city driving when new. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/7474.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/7474.shtml A 2017 Prius has 58 city mpg. You can beat that with an efficient driving style. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving So, they really are significantly better.
- bostonpete 9y ago
  Your point may be correct, but it does seem like you're cherry-picking the data. The difference in highway mpg is not nearly so significant: 1991 Honda Civic highway: 47 mpg 2017 Prius highway: 53 mpg
  - Retric 9y ago
    Stop and go conditions are the point of hybrid cars. At steady highway speeds you gain nothing and need to haul extra weight. Which is why long haul trucks are not all hybrids right now. So, yes it's not a pure net gain without costs. But, I assume most people can make that prediction fairly accurately.
    - ansible 9y ago
      At steady highway speeds you gain nothing and need to haul extra weight. The weight penalty isn't as bad as you might imagine. On the Toyotas, the hybrid design replaces the regular transmission, flywheel, and torque converter (if automatic) or clutch (if manual). So the big weight penalty is mostly the battery pack.
maxsilver 9y ago
> That wasn't a hybrid car, just a hyper-efficient gasoline engine in a lightweight body. One would think a modern plug-in hybrid would get well over 70 mpg. Including the electricity usage, or without it? Because my old 2013 Volt gets a real-world 150 mpg, if you don't count the electricity. But if you run it on gas alone, it only gets ~40mpg. Largely because, adding 1,000+ pounds of battery means the car will always be way heavier than a "lightweight body" 1991 subcompact.

dmm 9y ago

Cars from the 80s and early 90s are not really comparable to modern vehicles. Modern safety regulations add a lot of weight. A good example of this is the Mazda MX-5. The original model from 1989 weighed 940 kg (2,070 lb). In 2009 Mazda made a special lightweight MX-5 to celebrate the 20th anniversary. It was made of special materials and even removed the windshield to save weight. The resulting car weighed 130 lbs more than the 1989 model.

Retric 9y ago

1991 Honda CRX HF has 40 mpg in city driving when new. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/7474.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/7474.shtml A 2017 Prius has 58 city mpg. You can beat that with an efficient driving style. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving So, they really are significantly better.

bostonpete 9y ago
Your point may be correct, but it does seem like you're cherry-picking the data. The difference in highway mpg is not nearly so significant: 1991 Honda Civic highway: 47 mpg 2017 Prius highway: 53 mpg
- Retric 9y ago
  Stop and go conditions are the point of hybrid cars. At steady highway speeds you gain nothing and need to haul extra weight. Which is why long haul trucks are not all hybrids right now. So, yes it's not a pure net gain without costs. But, I assume most people can make that prediction fairly accurately.
  - ansible 9y ago
    At steady highway speeds you gain nothing and need to haul extra weight. The weight penalty isn't as bad as you might imagine. On the Toyotas, the hybrid design replaces the regular transmission, flywheel, and torque converter (if automatic) or clutch (if manual). So the big weight penalty is mostly the battery pack.

maxsilver 9y ago

> That wasn't a hybrid car, just a hyper-efficient gasoline engine in a lightweight body. One would think a modern plug-in hybrid would get well over 70 mpg. Including the electricity usage, or without it? Because my old 2013 Volt gets a real-world 150 mpg, if you don't count the electricity. But if you run it on gas alone, it only gets ~40mpg. Largely because, adding 1,000+ pounds of battery means the car will always be way heavier than a "lightweight body" 1991 subcompact.