17 ms·

Interview with Mr. Money Mustache

215 points by craigcannon 9y ago

craigcannon 9y ago
Hey! Thanks to many of you for suggesting Pete as a guest on the podcast. Let me know if you have ideas for other folks. You can comment here or email me - craig@ycombinator.com
- refrigerator 9y ago
  Ben Thompson of Stratechery (https://www.stratechery.com https://www.stratechery.com) - in addition to just talking about tech, would be good to hear about how he's grown his blog into such a great business.
  - craigcannon 9y ago
    :thumbsup:
- stevenj 9y ago
  Is there a way to see all the guests you've had on the podcast -- just a simple list without having to scroll through all the pages?
  - craigcannon 9y ago
    Hm. The iTunes feed might be easiest - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/y-combinator/id1236907421 https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/y-combinator/id123690742...
dsacco 9y ago
Something I’m curious about regarding Mr. Money Mustache - is he actually retired, in the sense that he doesn’t do anything to bring in income (except through passive index investing)? It seems like he has a brand that is pretty lucrative, so it’s unclear to me if he: 1. has enough money to be functionally retired at his current lifestyle, but chooses to continue his brand anyway, 2. has enough money to be functionally retired, but not at his current lifestyle, and so chooses to continue his brand, 3. cannot functionally retire and simply “transitioned” from professional software development to professional blogging. I follow the logic of his blog series (reduce spending dramatically, increase savings dramatically, invest optimally), but I can’t tell how much of it contributes to his current lifestyle.
- craigcannon 9y ago
  I think the answer is 1 - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ That said, some of the blog money is going into non-index investments like mmm hq - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/08/02/introducing-the-mmm-world-headquarters-building/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/08/02/introducing-the-mm...
- roel_v 9y ago
  He 'retired' (as in, didn't have a job but spend most of his time DIY'ing so he didn't need money - not quite my definition of 'retire' but let's not beat that dead horse any more) years before the blog, but now brings in 6 figures (maybe more by now) from ads & other website income. It's a bit a 'in a gold rush, those selling shovels do best' thing.
- crabasa 9y ago
  The answers to your question is here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ tl;dr - He is still very frugal, unless you count his business expenses. He definitely works on his business and brings in income, but he gives much of it away.
  - ryanmercer317 9y ago
    He's not frugal, he is very creative with his accounting. In the post you linked he deducts his medical expenses and food expenses. Also if you look at the post you linked "Does not include the $30k detached Studio I built." 30k$ is more than a LOT of people gross annually in the U.S. and he claims it doesn't count as an expense which conveniently keeps his budget 30k$ smaller than it in fact was. According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; for non-Hispanic Whites, it was $31,313; for Blacks, it was $18,406; for Asians, it was $30,292; and for Hispanics, it was $15,674." which are all less than his 30k$ "hey guys it doesn't count I added a whole new room to my house" creative budget.
- ashark 9y ago
  One of the things that made me stop reading him was when it became clear his "I'm totally retired and you can be too!" thing was BS. At the time he had like 3 part-time jobs (the blog, landlord, handyman, IIRC), with his savings being large enough that he could make a stupid "hey, you should stop paying so much for health insurance you idiots! Turns our if you have a lot of money in the bank and the skills to land a job with family coverage in a matter of months if you need to, you only need catastrophic coverage! I don't know why people say buying your own health insurance is expensive, it's not!" post, but not enough to totally retire on it (he seemed to be letting his investments grow by spending mostly his part-time job money, at the time, rather than investment returns)
robertcorey 9y ago
Mr. Money Mustache started me down the path of exploring my own personal philosophy. I now worship MMM as a diety (MMM !== Pete Adeney in my religion). Thanks for the teachings Pete.
- AVTizzle 9y ago
  Robert - what would you recommend as a getting started guide to MMM? And how would you describe your personal philosophy?
  - froindt 9y ago
    Not Robert, but I would start here. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... Start reading more from there and remember it's your expenses more than your income that matter most. Also remember he turned the dial quite far. And this page is also quite good. You don't have to go as extreme as MMM, and doing so would burn out a lot of people. https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/58j8pc/build_the_life_you_want_then_save_for_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/58j8...
    - hammock 9y ago
      Seconding this. That MMM article is what got me started into reading more of that blog.
  - robertcorey 9y ago
    I would recommend reading through the entire blog archive, all together it's about the same length as a book. You can skip over articles on things that aren't interesting to you, for example I don't care about real estate. My personal philosophy is a combination of all the different sources I have been exposed too. My main influences would be the mustachian thought sphere (MMM, The Magic of Thinking Big, Stoicism), secular western buddhism (Buddhism Plain and Simple, In the realm of hungry ghosts, The magic of tidying up) Game theory probabilistic thinking (Poker background). When I first started reading MMM I was already a very tribal person. The us vs them mentality really appealed to me because I was used to strongly identifying with minority tribes (atheist, vegan). After I started studying buddhism I've been able to let go of some of the tribalism of mustachianism , but the frugality and the powerful self belief have remained. This is an example of my personal philosophy forking from a monolithic belief system. I also have a couple dieties I worship. MMM is the god of frugality and not being a wimp. RNGesus is the god of accepting random bad stuff. I'll spin up/down dieties to put on my altar depending on my current priorities/ needs. I know recommending you a bunch of books isn't really a proper response, but a proper definition would be the length of a book and I haven't written that yet. What I would recommend to everyone is to study different belief systems and roll your own religion. Our brain is designed to consume faith-y belief systems. It's arrogant to believe those mechanisms in your brain won't latch on to something. It should be something your consciously decide on and design.
wpietri 9y ago
Oh god. I'm horrified by this. > People think of a cult as a bad thing [...] really, it’s just a social organization structure which is a basic built-in thing to human beings This is the naturalistic fallacy, or the is-ought fallacy. Other basic built-in things to human beings include ignorance, rage, greed, abuse, exploitation, and violence. A core part of civilization is deciding which of our basic built-in things are valuable, amplifying the useful bits, and circumscribing the ones that aren't. Treating something as good because it's natural is a giant error. A very convenient one for him here.
- theorique 9y ago
  Don't read too much into it. He's only using "cult" as a provocative term to describe a tribe of fans who passionately like a particular brand. Nobody's going to be committing human sacrifices or burning heretics on behalf of Mr Money Mustache any time soon.
  - islanderfun 9y ago
    > Don't read too much into it. It's hard not to especially when comes to people in power and leadership.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    In all fairness, I do think it's a bit more than that although I think it's mostly harmless if not positive in this particular case. A fair number of people do feel the need to jump into systems/philosophies/brands with both feet whether it's MMM or GTD. Personally, I am more the pick and choose useful ideas from here and there sort, but if committing wholeheartedly is what someone has to do develop better spending habits I have trouble finding a lot of fault with that.
- exergy 9y ago
  I'm going to use your comment to go on a bit of a rant. What is the purpose of your comment? Like, really. What are you trying to attain by stating what you did? Your comment is pedantic and completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Derisive thing to say, perhaps, but this is classic HN. Miss the big picture for a useless little nugget that is of zero consequence. For the current case, for example, a certain amount of a lot of those supposed "vices" that you listed are healthy. Greed and jealousy make you strive, ignorance give you peace of mind, rage is cathartic. So, OK, I'm guessing we both agree that there should be limits on such things. Scientology, bad. Cult involving biking to work, good. "A very convenient one for him here". Huh? Your comment just seems to be a portal into a conversation involving endless squabling about a topic that has nothing to do with MMM.
joeax 9y ago
I've been reading his blog for a few years, and he does some have some insightful advice on shedding unnecessary expenses and living on a frugal spending diet. I've been able to get down to one car that is almost paid off, and double my savings and investment portfolio. My favorite article from him is living close enough to work to bike (although working from home is most ideal). However, his blog comes with a bit of smug (calling himself a "cult", or "Good news, there's a recession coming"). His faithful mantra of "retiring at 30" is a pipe dream unless: (1) you have a big income i.e. $200k per year by the time you are 25, (2) have a software engineer wife that makes as much as you and have no kids, or (3) inherited a large sum to begin with. All of his case studies are about him and his wife who were pulling $100k before they "retired", or the lawyer who was pulling in $160k a year at 26. Kudos to them, but good luck trying to retire as a welder or car mechanic making $50k.
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  Sadly, these days good luck trying to retire EVER making $50K.
  - abfan1127 9y ago
    its about living within your means... you can't afford new cards, $1000 cell phones, AND retire on 50k, but you can pare that back... Life is about choices.
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- the_gastropod 9y ago
  > but good luck trying to retire as a welder or car mechanic making $50k Retiring at 30 while earning $50k would be difficult. But retiring at 40 or even 50 is still relatively easy on such a salary.
  - jrochkind1 9y ago
    Really? In the U.S.? Case study? Without kids and if you don't really spend any money on recreation or vacations (before or after retirement), maybe. Or if you somehow have a job that will give you a pension (with health insurance?) at 50, sure!
brndnmtthws 9y ago
Does anyone else think it's a bit funny to see an MMM interview on YC? Through their investments, YC seems quite pro-consumerism. Consumerism is the antithesis of being mustachian. It's always kind of bothered me that HN (and YC) seems to encourage conspicuous consumption.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Where do HN and YC encourage conspicuous consumption? Does ramen profitable somehow equate conspicuous consumption?
  - brndnmtthws 9y ago
    A significant number of YC's alumnus look like Juiceros to me. Building products nobody needs because they think there's enough stupid people to create a market. Slap together some glossy marketing materials, and now you've got a premium product ready to change the world. Frankly, most people don't need to be constantly buying new things. They should be buying less, fixing what they've got, saving more, going outside and getting exercise.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      YC alumnus != YC. Huge difference there. Agreed on the 'changing the world' bs, though there are some that genuinely seem to have that goal (Watsi, for instance). And yes, people usually do not need all that they are buying but then again, it keeps the economy going, I'm having a hard time imagining a world where everybody behaves like MMM does, it would not scale.
- loeg 9y ago
  Also, startups are kind of the antithesis of early retirement.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    The few people I know that actually managed to get into early retirement (below 35) were the ones that founded very successful start-ups.
jacquesm 9y ago
The MMM way is more about locking in your luck than anything else. Be frugal, when lady luck smiles and you have a lot of income make sure you do not waste the proceeds and avoid living above your means at all costs. Having skills is a plus and in his particular case it helps if you are good at building a personal brand so you can ride the self help bandwagon. Very useful information compared to most other self help institutions though, far more actionable but a bit preachy and unaware of how complex other peoples lives are but such over simplification can help to make a point. Also, he seems to pretend as if he is the first person ever to live like this but there are many others that simply never thought of themselves as special in any way. See also: the millionaire next door.
- markdog12 9y ago
  > Also, he seems to pretend as if he is the first person ever to live like this but there are many others that simply never thought of themselves as special in any way. See also: the millionaire next door. He believes the world would be a better place if most people lived a bit more like him (independence, hard work, frugality, etc). I don't see anything wrong with blogging about it. Also, he certainly doesn't claim he's the first person to live like this, and regularly cites influences, including an entire post dedicated to Millionaire Next Door: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/14/weekend-edition-book-review-the-millionaire-next-door/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/14/weekend-edition-bo... And the book he credits with changing his life: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/28/weekend-edition-the-magic-of-thinking-big/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/28/weekend-edition-th...
- ghaff 9y ago
  I find his schtick over the top. On the other hand, some people really do need to learn that they'd have an easier time saving money if they didn't lease a BMW, go out eating and drinking every other night, and vacation at expensive resorts.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    He has a pretty healthy attitude to debt and in plenty of countries that are less consumption oriented he would be pretty normal. I know lots of mustachians here in Europe who most likely have never ever heard of him.
avenoir 9y ago
How much money do you have to have in index funds to live comfortably off dividends? Isn't it an astronomical amount? I have ~$100K in index funds and i'm making about $100 (if even that)/month right now which just gets reinvested. You'd have to have at least half a mil to get any kind of serious money out of this.
- deleted 9y ago
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- tome 9y ago
  You can safely draw down 4% per year according to fairly conservative calculations of MMM. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need... It sounds like you're making 1.2% in dividends, but you can (by this calculation) also sell 2.8% of your investments whilst keeping your total pot above inflation.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Are you paying a lot in fees? I would have expected a better return than that.
  - avenoir 9y ago
    Very possible since this is a managed account. I am terrified of doing anything in the stock market, unfortunately.
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- TACIXAT 9y ago
  The general rule that people use is the 4% rule. If you take your comfortable living amount and divide by 0.04, you will get a rough estimate on how much you will need to retire. This is based off of market returns, primarily invested in index funds. If 40k / year was comfortable, then the target would be 1,000,000.
galfarragem 9y ago
'Life is a balancing act.' I do also use to read his blog but I don't follow 'frugalism' as a cult. I cherrypick what I consider that adds significant value to my life. The same with other "isms" like Agnosticism, Centrism, Minimalism and Intellectualism..
RestlessMind 9y ago
The biggest question I face regarding early retirement in the USA is how to handle health care expenses, because the situation is so messed up. There is huge uncertainty around the future of healthcare, especially regarding coverage and quality. So far, all the early retired people I have seen have either a working spouse or have retired abroad. It would be great to know if people here, especially those who retired early, have solved the problem of healthcare coverage.
- elihu 9y ago
  At least with the Affordable Care Act (which survived yet another repeal-and-replace attempt this week), it's possible to buy insurance on the open market with a pre-existing condition (which I assume that almost everyone older than their 20s or 30s has at least one). So for now health insurance is an expense you can plausibly budget for and not something that's completely unattainable at any price.
  - RestlessMind 9y ago
    Given the political uncertainty around ACA until now, I would say its a rational decision to not rely on it. Sure, it survived this round of repeal efforts, but I am not sure if it is going to survive next 10 years. There is a very good chance that it will be replaced, and only a moderate chance that replacement will be better than what we have today.
- stlHusker 9y ago
  From my own experience, most people have not. I work in aerospace and there are a large number of employees with 30+ years tenure who are of retirement age who need to stick around because of the quality and cost of the health insurance coverage. Engineers with good salaries who have saved much more than the average Joe, much more than most "financially independent" bloggers.
- sjg007 9y ago
  True, I think in 10 years we will have single payer or at least buy into medicaid as a start.
_jal 9y ago
Allow me to just throw out that I love the transcript. I know it is a lot of work, but I wish more podcasters would publish them. I watch/listen to very few podcasts; don't drive regularly, which is where I would normally consume them, and otherwise tend to skip them because so many are a tedious waste of time. Plus, I just prefer text to video. So, thank you!
- craigcannon 9y ago
  Glad you like it! Always helpful to know what's worth the effort :)
  - baccredited 9y ago
    Can you help me find the RSS feed? I'm trying to subscribe in a popular iOS podcast player (Overcast) and struggling to find the feed. Never mind found at: backtracks.fm/ycombinator/ycombinator/feed
- ghaff 9y ago
  They're really not a huge amount of work if you pay a nominal amount to have it done for you. After I edit a podcast, I get mine transcribed by CastingWords, clean it up minimally, and paste it into the blog post I do for the podcast with show notes, etc.) e.g. http://bitmason.blogspot.com/2017/07/red-hat-mark-wagner-on-hyperledger.html http://bitmason.blogspot.com/2017/07/red-hat-mark-wagner-on-... If I want to do a longer blog post based on the interview, it's also nice to just have the transcript to excerpt from.
tryingagainbro 9y ago
retired at 30 and probably making millions a year, because "he retired". Now that's retirement. A++++ on marketing.
bluetwo 9y ago
For a guy who claims to be retired he sure seems to work a lot.
- sowbug 9y ago
  Feeds into the universal basic income philosophy: if you don't have to work to survive, you might still work on things you care about.
  - bluetwo 9y ago
    Do you think he is doing this for free? I don't.
    - sowbug 9y ago
      No, neither of us thinks that. I think you wanted to point out an inconsistency between the dictionary definition of retirement and the fact that this person is still receiving income in exchange for work. You made your point. Let's move past that. Not having to work to survive (e.g., this guy, retirement, UBI, lottery, vow of asceticism, whatever) gives you more options. Some people go on permanent vacation. Some people keep chugging away at their jobs because they still enjoy them. Some people change to jobs that they previously weren't willing to stake their survival on, and those new jobs might or might not pay money. I don't know this MMM guy, but it seems like he's in that last group. Doesn't sound so strange to me. I'd be pretty disappointed if retiring meant you were prohibited from doing things that others happened to be willing to pay for.
tsc 9y ago
Does anybody know whether the transcripts are done manually or automatically? Seems to be a lot of work if it’s done manually.
- craigcannon 9y ago
  https://backtracks.fm https://backtracks.fm does it for us and they also host the podcast. I think they do a bit of both but don't know for sure.
dxbydt 9y ago
man, what a weird pov. Start at the beginning - "nobody should do the 40 mile pleasanton to sf commute". I guess he means pleasanton to mv, because if you were to go to sf you'd just take the bart door to door. So do you know how many engineers drive from pleasanton, or in general east bay, to mv ? I'd wager its upwards of 100k, considering the backed up traffic on 680 between 8 am to noon. now are all of these engineers fools ? the majority of them have a nice tech gig in mv at the biggest tech firms - the sexiest startups and boring profitable enterprises, a solid 150k+ paycheck, stocks, 401k etc and are paying off their mortgage in the east bay on a large 3k sq ft house in an incredible school district. the tech companies themselves encourage this behavior by plying free wifi-buses on 680 so you've done your git commits en route. so which part of this is objectionable and why ? even if facebook builds a company town in san mateo or wherever, engineers are ultimately humans who have reasonable human desires to buy a house & get hitched & start a family & send the kids to school, so all of that isn't going to happen within the confines of a company town designed for the 20 year old median programmer crowd. in all likelihood, this 40 mile commute, whether to east bay or south bay or wherever will be the norm, because the alternative is what ? all of us moving to colorado and riding our bicycles to work?! i mean i envy your frugal no-waste healthy bicycle lifestyle, but i just don't see all these engineers with giant beer bellies either. they do the 40 mile commute because there really isn't much of a choice, and most companies do offer some form of on-site fitness regimen, so the majority does keep in shape. financially the outcome is positive as well - appreciating equity in a spacious sunny california home, 7 figure retirement accounts, kids in good schools. if the only downside is a 40 mile commute, i'll take that any day of the week.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  I read a couple of his blog posts, and his "your doing it wrong because you don't value what I value" attitude is a huge turn-off. He probably has some great gems of wisdom but they're lost in the moralizing about why I shouldn't have a car and why I'm inferior because I didn't get a windfall and pay off my mortgage. I do that specific "mega commute" he mentions (I'm in Livermore so it's even farther), and trust me, I don't live out here because I like to commute over 100 miles each day!
- ck425 9y ago
sjg007 9y ago
I find it interesting that both he and his wife were high income earner earners. That makes it easier to save appropriately and get to financial freedom sooner. I think he even notes this in some of his blog posts that the opportunity to become financially free is limited. A lot of people don't have a 3 month or 6 month reserve which I think is the first goal. Get there first.
- ryanmercer317 9y ago
  He and his wife are STILL high income earners. From his affiliate links, sponsored posts and going on and on about his wife's etsy business I guarantee you they are still making six figures without ever having to touch their retirement investments. Call him out on that and guess what, he will NOT approve the comment on his posts.
SandersAK 9y ago
This is such a weird content piece from YC. Is this supposed to help us understand brand marketing? If so, I want to hear from people who have piloted the brands of massively successful startups, not a guy who says he's head of a cult. Though I don't agree with or support self-help / Tim Ferris types personally, I'm open to the idea that this guy has some key insight into branding for startups, but this content doesn't really have any of that. I appreciate a hustler as much as anyone, but this guy doesn't stand out from your generic Tim Ferris / Gary Vee snake oil lifestyle sellers.
ggggtez 9y ago
Rich guy tells poor guys, "to get rich, trick poor guys to listen to you". He's not wrong but you're all fools for caring about what he has to say.
- anotherproj 9y ago
  He told me to save some money and invest it. I gave him nothing and have more money in the bank. How does this make me foolish?
- dceddia 9y ago
  His message is basically summarized as "Spend less than you earn, and invest it in index funds." He's not wrong, but I submit that the people implementing that advice aren't fools, either.
  - ggggtez 9y ago
    I'm referring to his comment about starting a cult. He is right of course that finding gullible people to follow you is easy. Just say some obvious things like "don't spend all your money, save and invest!" and the sheep will flock. Maybe you gave him no money, but you spent your time and attention.
peterwwillis 9y ago
tl;dr privileged white guy tells you you can retire at 30 if you have access to >300k a year for 10 years and ride a bike
otterpro 9y ago
The easiest way to retire early is to enlist in the military, at least in the US, anyway. After 20 years of service, you are set for life with life-long retirement pension and healthcare. Of course, there's a high risk, since there's always wars and deployments, etc and many don't make it past 10 years, after they get fed up with being in the military. When I was in the army, I saw a lot of people in their early 40's who retired after their service, and many spent their time either working in another job, because of boredom of retirement, or activities like traveling. These were those who enlisted right after high school, with nothing but a HS degree, but they were doing much better off than my friends who had college and MBA.
- sjg007 9y ago
  It's also a great way to go to med school.
- kamaal 9y ago
  Military pensions continue to be the top reason why most young people across the world are attracted to join the forces. But there is a catch though. You really have to serve the minimum time. And like you said most get either fed up, or they are discharged early. The other part is in many parts of the world, there is relative peace, so its a safe bet. Plus most of the times apart from the training days, they actually see good physical exercise everyday to its like a win-win job. In India armed forces have asked for a kind of roll over pensions, where every year your pensions are revised and you are paid as much as the highest paid servicemen retiring in the rank you retired from. Of course there is a lot of opposition from the civilian side for something like this. Given the relative peace in the Indian subcontinent, in most cases its possible for many people to make it through without much risk, and if you join early, you can come out by 40, with a neat yearly increasing pension for the rest of your life. They also have short service commission jobs in the Indian army, which don't carry these benefits. And they often go unfilled for the obvious reasons.
- ryanmercer317 9y ago
  It's also a great way to end up with nagging injuries for the rest of your life, PTSD and or certain death.
mod 9y ago
Something that seems to be lost in this thread, which looks to be mostly a debate about whether or not early retirement is feasible for normal people: For normal people, MMM strategy is about making uncomfortable decisions (plain, reliable used cars, no fine dining, no fancy houses, no downtown-big-city living locations) to avoid the most uncomfortable thing of all: work. If you would rather have a job your whole life so you never have to eat a bean or drive a 20 year old car, you're not the target audience. People who are driven to early retirement & financial independence are people who DESPISE jobs and are willing to spend their whole life at a much smaller income bracket in exchange for not having one. They don't want your new devices, cable tv, leased cars, and downtown apartments. They agree those things are nice, but not nice enough to take on an extra 40,000 hours of "servitude" with an employer. The strategy is simple: if you can live on 20% of your income, and save the rest, then in a few years, you will have the ability to reproduce that same income indefinitely. The amount of the income doesn't matter, and that is being lost here for some reason. If you can't do 20%, you can do 30% and a few extra years. Or whatever. The MMM strategy is about ditching the job, and balancing the trade-offs to something you can stomach. If you can't stomach it, fine, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable strategy.
- arthurjj 9y ago
  > People who are driven to early retirement & financial independence are people who DESPISE jobs and are willing to spend their whole life at a much smaller income bracket in exchange for not having one. I was surprised by the negativity in this thread until I read this sentence. Most readers here though have the option of either finding a less terrible job or starting our own companies. When neither of those are an option eating beans sounds pretty good.
- dublidu 9y ago
  Just because you want to work forever doesn’t mean you will have the opportunity to. There are plenty of 50 year olds who unexpectedly find themselves out of work and unhireable.
- deleted 9y ago
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jacquesm 9y ago
How disappointing to see this flagged.
jaclaz 9y ago
Only to say that there is "nothing new under the sun", Mr. Money Mustache's basic message is (was) essentially "common sense", some time ago I cited an old Italian proverb in a similar enough topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14593794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14593794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14594858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14594858 He only uses his own experience to show how it can come out in practice (and of course it needs to be scaled - down or up - depending on personal income, financial situation, family size, etc. and of course expectations). Results will of course be different, but the basic principle remains valid.
ryanmercer317 9y ago
I know the vast majority of you are 6-figure types and MMM is still making 6 figures annually from his blog and his wife's 'hobby' business and that he never actually has to touch his retirement investments and can in fact add more money to them annually than most people in the U.S. actually gross. According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; for non-Hispanic Whites, it was $31,313; for Blacks, it was $18,406; for Asians, it was $30,292; and for Hispanics, it was $15,674." It's taken me 11 years to get to 32k, I got super lucky early this summer and got hired for some remote work, full time on top of my current job, for a tech company thanks to someone at YC helping me out. A day after I started I was told I was inelligible for employment because several years ago I had to file bankruptcy. So while you all sit nice and well with your 6-figure incomes, talking about how horrible your lives are when you earn more in a year than I do in 3-5 years BEFORE your bonuses and 401k match and all the benefits you get that real businesses don't offer their employees... just know a lot of us are busting our asses just to feed ourselves.

215 points by craigcannon 9y ago

Hey! Thanks to many of you for suggesting Pete as a guest on the podcast. Let me know if you have ideas for other folks. You can comment here or email me - craig@ycombinator.com

refrigerator 9y ago
Ben Thompson of Stratechery (https://www.stratechery.com https://www.stratechery.com) - in addition to just talking about tech, would be good to hear about how he's grown his blog into such a great business.
- craigcannon 9y ago
  :thumbsup:
stevenj 9y ago
Is there a way to see all the guests you've had on the podcast -- just a simple list without having to scroll through all the pages?
- craigcannon 9y ago
  Hm. The iTunes feed might be easiest - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/y-combinator/id1236907421 https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/y-combinator/id123690742...

dsacco 9y ago

Something I’m curious about regarding Mr. Money Mustache - is he actually retired, in the sense that he doesn’t do anything to bring in income (except through passive index investing)? It seems like he has a brand that is pretty lucrative, so it’s unclear to me if he: 1. has enough money to be functionally retired at his current lifestyle, but chooses to continue his brand anyway, 2. has enough money to be functionally retired, but not at his current lifestyle, and so chooses to continue his brand, 3. cannot functionally retire and simply “transitioned” from professional software development to professional blogging. I follow the logic of his blog series (reduce spending dramatically, increase savings dramatically, invest optimally), but I can’t tell how much of it contributes to his current lifestyle.

craigcannon 9y ago
I think the answer is 1 - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ That said, some of the blog money is going into non-index investments like mmm hq - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/08/02/introducing-the-mmm-world-headquarters-building/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/08/02/introducing-the-mm...
roel_v 9y ago
He 'retired' (as in, didn't have a job but spend most of his time DIY'ing so he didn't need money - not quite my definition of 'retire' but let's not beat that dead horse any more) years before the blog, but now brings in 6 figures (maybe more by now) from ads & other website income. It's a bit a 'in a gold rush, those selling shovels do best' thing.
crabasa 9y ago
The answers to your question is here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/ tl;dr - He is still very frugal, unless you count his business expenses. He definitely works on his business and brings in income, but he gives much of it away.
- ryanmercer317 9y ago
  He's not frugal, he is very creative with his accounting. In the post you linked he deducts his medical expenses and food expenses. Also if you look at the post you linked "Does not include the $30k detached Studio I built." 30k$ is more than a LOT of people gross annually in the U.S. and he claims it doesn't count as an expense which conveniently keeps his budget 30k$ smaller than it in fact was. According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; for non-Hispanic Whites, it was $31,313; for Blacks, it was $18,406; for Asians, it was $30,292; and for Hispanics, it was $15,674." which are all less than his 30k$ "hey guys it doesn't count I added a whole new room to my house" creative budget.
ashark 9y ago
One of the things that made me stop reading him was when it became clear his "I'm totally retired and you can be too!" thing was BS. At the time he had like 3 part-time jobs (the blog, landlord, handyman, IIRC), with his savings being large enough that he could make a stupid "hey, you should stop paying so much for health insurance you idiots! Turns our if you have a lot of money in the bank and the skills to land a job with family coverage in a matter of months if you need to, you only need catastrophic coverage! I don't know why people say buying your own health insurance is expensive, it's not!" post, but not enough to totally retire on it (he seemed to be letting his investments grow by spending mostly his part-time job money, at the time, rather than investment returns)

robertcorey 9y ago

Mr. Money Mustache started me down the path of exploring my own personal philosophy. I now worship MMM as a diety (MMM !== Pete Adeney in my religion). Thanks for the teachings Pete.

AVTizzle 9y ago
Robert - what would you recommend as a getting started guide to MMM? And how would you describe your personal philosophy?
- froindt 9y ago
  Not Robert, but I would start here. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... Start reading more from there and remember it's your expenses more than your income that matter most. Also remember he turned the dial quite far. And this page is also quite good. You don't have to go as extreme as MMM, and doing so would burn out a lot of people. https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/58j8pc/build_the_life_you_want_then_save_for_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/58j8...
  - hammock 9y ago
    Seconding this. That MMM article is what got me started into reading more of that blog.
- robertcorey 9y ago
  I would recommend reading through the entire blog archive, all together it's about the same length as a book. You can skip over articles on things that aren't interesting to you, for example I don't care about real estate. My personal philosophy is a combination of all the different sources I have been exposed too. My main influences would be the mustachian thought sphere (MMM, The Magic of Thinking Big, Stoicism), secular western buddhism (Buddhism Plain and Simple, In the realm of hungry ghosts, The magic of tidying up) Game theory probabilistic thinking (Poker background). When I first started reading MMM I was already a very tribal person. The us vs them mentality really appealed to me because I was used to strongly identifying with minority tribes (atheist, vegan). After I started studying buddhism I've been able to let go of some of the tribalism of mustachianism , but the frugality and the powerful self belief have remained. This is an example of my personal philosophy forking from a monolithic belief system. I also have a couple dieties I worship. MMM is the god of frugality and not being a wimp. RNGesus is the god of accepting random bad stuff. I'll spin up/down dieties to put on my altar depending on my current priorities/ needs. I know recommending you a bunch of books isn't really a proper response, but a proper definition would be the length of a book and I haven't written that yet. What I would recommend to everyone is to study different belief systems and roll your own religion. Our brain is designed to consume faith-y belief systems. It's arrogant to believe those mechanisms in your brain won't latch on to something. It should be something your consciously decide on and design.

wpietri 9y ago

Oh god. I'm horrified by this. > People think of a cult as a bad thing [...] really, it’s just a social organization structure which is a basic built-in thing to human beings This is the naturalistic fallacy, or the is-ought fallacy. Other basic built-in things to human beings include ignorance, rage, greed, abuse, exploitation, and violence. A core part of civilization is deciding which of our basic built-in things are valuable, amplifying the useful bits, and circumscribing the ones that aren't. Treating something as good because it's natural is a giant error. A very convenient one for him here.

theorique 9y ago
Don't read too much into it. He's only using "cult" as a provocative term to describe a tribe of fans who passionately like a particular brand. Nobody's going to be committing human sacrifices or burning heretics on behalf of Mr Money Mustache any time soon.
- islanderfun 9y ago
  > Don't read too much into it. It's hard not to especially when comes to people in power and leadership.
- ghaff 9y ago
  In all fairness, I do think it's a bit more than that although I think it's mostly harmless if not positive in this particular case. A fair number of people do feel the need to jump into systems/philosophies/brands with both feet whether it's MMM or GTD. Personally, I am more the pick and choose useful ideas from here and there sort, but if committing wholeheartedly is what someone has to do develop better spending habits I have trouble finding a lot of fault with that.
exergy 9y ago
I'm going to use your comment to go on a bit of a rant. What is the purpose of your comment? Like, really. What are you trying to attain by stating what you did? Your comment is pedantic and completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Derisive thing to say, perhaps, but this is classic HN. Miss the big picture for a useless little nugget that is of zero consequence. For the current case, for example, a certain amount of a lot of those supposed "vices" that you listed are healthy. Greed and jealousy make you strive, ignorance give you peace of mind, rage is cathartic. So, OK, I'm guessing we both agree that there should be limits on such things. Scientology, bad. Cult involving biking to work, good. "A very convenient one for him here". Huh? Your comment just seems to be a portal into a conversation involving endless squabling about a topic that has nothing to do with MMM.

joeax 9y ago

I've been reading his blog for a few years, and he does some have some insightful advice on shedding unnecessary expenses and living on a frugal spending diet. I've been able to get down to one car that is almost paid off, and double my savings and investment portfolio. My favorite article from him is living close enough to work to bike (although working from home is most ideal). However, his blog comes with a bit of smug (calling himself a "cult", or "Good news, there's a recession coming"). His faithful mantra of "retiring at 30" is a pipe dream unless: (1) you have a big income i.e. $200k per year by the time you are 25, (2) have a software engineer wife that makes as much as you and have no kids, or (3) inherited a large sum to begin with. All of his case studies are about him and his wife who were pulling $100k before they "retired", or the lawyer who was pulling in $160k a year at 26. Kudos to them, but good luck trying to retire as a welder or car mechanic making $50k.

jrochkind1 9y ago
Sadly, these days good luck trying to retire EVER making $50K.
- abfan1127 9y ago
  its about living within your means... you can't afford new cards, $1000 cell phones, AND retire on 50k, but you can pare that back... Life is about choices.
  - deleted 9y ago
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the_gastropod 9y ago
> but good luck trying to retire as a welder or car mechanic making $50k Retiring at 30 while earning $50k would be difficult. But retiring at 40 or even 50 is still relatively easy on such a salary.
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  Really? In the U.S.? Case study? Without kids and if you don't really spend any money on recreation or vacations (before or after retirement), maybe. Or if you somehow have a job that will give you a pension (with health insurance?) at 50, sure!

brndnmtthws 9y ago

Does anyone else think it's a bit funny to see an MMM interview on YC? Through their investments, YC seems quite pro-consumerism. Consumerism is the antithesis of being mustachian. It's always kind of bothered me that HN (and YC) seems to encourage conspicuous consumption.

jacquesm 9y ago
Where do HN and YC encourage conspicuous consumption? Does ramen profitable somehow equate conspicuous consumption?
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  A significant number of YC's alumnus look like Juiceros to me. Building products nobody needs because they think there's enough stupid people to create a market. Slap together some glossy marketing materials, and now you've got a premium product ready to change the world. Frankly, most people don't need to be constantly buying new things. They should be buying less, fixing what they've got, saving more, going outside and getting exercise.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    YC alumnus != YC. Huge difference there. Agreed on the 'changing the world' bs, though there are some that genuinely seem to have that goal (Watsi, for instance). And yes, people usually do not need all that they are buying but then again, it keeps the economy going, I'm having a hard time imagining a world where everybody behaves like MMM does, it would not scale.
loeg 9y ago
Also, startups are kind of the antithesis of early retirement.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  The few people I know that actually managed to get into early retirement (below 35) were the ones that founded very successful start-ups.

jacquesm 9y ago

The MMM way is more about locking in your luck than anything else. Be frugal, when lady luck smiles and you have a lot of income make sure you do not waste the proceeds and avoid living above your means at all costs. Having skills is a plus and in his particular case it helps if you are good at building a personal brand so you can ride the self help bandwagon. Very useful information compared to most other self help institutions though, far more actionable but a bit preachy and unaware of how complex other peoples lives are but such over simplification can help to make a point. Also, he seems to pretend as if he is the first person ever to live like this but there are many others that simply never thought of themselves as special in any way. See also: the millionaire next door.

markdog12 9y ago
> Also, he seems to pretend as if he is the first person ever to live like this but there are many others that simply never thought of themselves as special in any way. See also: the millionaire next door. He believes the world would be a better place if most people lived a bit more like him (independence, hard work, frugality, etc). I don't see anything wrong with blogging about it. Also, he certainly doesn't claim he's the first person to live like this, and regularly cites influences, including an entire post dedicated to Millionaire Next Door: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/14/weekend-edition-book-review-the-millionaire-next-door/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/14/weekend-edition-bo... And the book he credits with changing his life: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/28/weekend-edition-the-magic-of-thinking-big/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/28/weekend-edition-th...
ghaff 9y ago
I find his schtick over the top. On the other hand, some people really do need to learn that they'd have an easier time saving money if they didn't lease a BMW, go out eating and drinking every other night, and vacation at expensive resorts.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  He has a pretty healthy attitude to debt and in plenty of countries that are less consumption oriented he would be pretty normal. I know lots of mustachians here in Europe who most likely have never ever heard of him.

avenoir 9y ago

How much money do you have to have in index funds to live comfortably off dividends? Isn't it an astronomical amount? I have ~$100K in index funds and i'm making about $100 (if even that)/month right now which just gets reinvested. You'd have to have at least half a mil to get any kind of serious money out of this.

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tome 9y ago
You can safely draw down 4% per year according to fairly conservative calculations of MMM. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need... It sounds like you're making 1.2% in dividends, but you can (by this calculation) also sell 2.8% of your investments whilst keeping your total pot above inflation.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Are you paying a lot in fees? I would have expected a better return than that.
- avenoir 9y ago
  Very possible since this is a managed account. I am terrified of doing anything in the stock market, unfortunately.
  - deleted 9y ago
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TACIXAT 9y ago
The general rule that people use is the 4% rule. If you take your comfortable living amount and divide by 0.04, you will get a rough estimate on how much you will need to retire. This is based off of market returns, primarily invested in index funds. If 40k / year was comfortable, then the target would be 1,000,000.

galfarragem 9y ago

'Life is a balancing act.' I do also use to read his blog but I don't follow 'frugalism' as a cult. I cherrypick what I consider that adds significant value to my life. The same with other "isms" like Agnosticism, Centrism, Minimalism and Intellectualism..

RestlessMind 9y ago

The biggest question I face regarding early retirement in the USA is how to handle health care expenses, because the situation is so messed up. There is huge uncertainty around the future of healthcare, especially regarding coverage and quality. So far, all the early retired people I have seen have either a working spouse or have retired abroad. It would be great to know if people here, especially those who retired early, have solved the problem of healthcare coverage.

elihu 9y ago
At least with the Affordable Care Act (which survived yet another repeal-and-replace attempt this week), it's possible to buy insurance on the open market with a pre-existing condition (which I assume that almost everyone older than their 20s or 30s has at least one). So for now health insurance is an expense you can plausibly budget for and not something that's completely unattainable at any price.
- RestlessMind 9y ago
  Given the political uncertainty around ACA until now, I would say its a rational decision to not rely on it. Sure, it survived this round of repeal efforts, but I am not sure if it is going to survive next 10 years. There is a very good chance that it will be replaced, and only a moderate chance that replacement will be better than what we have today.
stlHusker 9y ago
From my own experience, most people have not. I work in aerospace and there are a large number of employees with 30+ years tenure who are of retirement age who need to stick around because of the quality and cost of the health insurance coverage. Engineers with good salaries who have saved much more than the average Joe, much more than most "financially independent" bloggers.
sjg007 9y ago
True, I think in 10 years we will have single payer or at least buy into medicaid as a start.

_jal 9y ago

Allow me to just throw out that I love the transcript. I know it is a lot of work, but I wish more podcasters would publish them. I watch/listen to very few podcasts; don't drive regularly, which is where I would normally consume them, and otherwise tend to skip them because so many are a tedious waste of time. Plus, I just prefer text to video. So, thank you!

craigcannon 9y ago
Glad you like it! Always helpful to know what's worth the effort :)
- baccredited 9y ago
  Can you help me find the RSS feed? I'm trying to subscribe in a popular iOS podcast player (Overcast) and struggling to find the feed. Never mind found at: backtracks.fm/ycombinator/ycombinator/feed
ghaff 9y ago
They're really not a huge amount of work if you pay a nominal amount to have it done for you. After I edit a podcast, I get mine transcribed by CastingWords, clean it up minimally, and paste it into the blog post I do for the podcast with show notes, etc.) e.g. http://bitmason.blogspot.com/2017/07/red-hat-mark-wagner-on-hyperledger.html http://bitmason.blogspot.com/2017/07/red-hat-mark-wagner-on-... If I want to do a longer blog post based on the interview, it's also nice to just have the transcript to excerpt from.

tryingagainbro 9y ago

retired at 30 and probably making millions a year, because "he retired". Now that's retirement. A++++ on marketing.

bluetwo 9y ago

For a guy who claims to be retired he sure seems to work a lot.

sowbug 9y ago
Feeds into the universal basic income philosophy: if you don't have to work to survive, you might still work on things you care about.
- bluetwo 9y ago
  Do you think he is doing this for free? I don't.
  - sowbug 9y ago
    No, neither of us thinks that. I think you wanted to point out an inconsistency between the dictionary definition of retirement and the fact that this person is still receiving income in exchange for work. You made your point. Let's move past that. Not having to work to survive (e.g., this guy, retirement, UBI, lottery, vow of asceticism, whatever) gives you more options. Some people go on permanent vacation. Some people keep chugging away at their jobs because they still enjoy them. Some people change to jobs that they previously weren't willing to stake their survival on, and those new jobs might or might not pay money. I don't know this MMM guy, but it seems like he's in that last group. Doesn't sound so strange to me. I'd be pretty disappointed if retiring meant you were prohibited from doing things that others happened to be willing to pay for.

tsc 9y ago

Does anybody know whether the transcripts are done manually or automatically? Seems to be a lot of work if it’s done manually.

craigcannon 9y ago
https://backtracks.fm https://backtracks.fm does it for us and they also host the podcast. I think they do a bit of both but don't know for sure.

dxbydt 9y ago

man, what a weird pov. Start at the beginning - "nobody should do the 40 mile pleasanton to sf commute". I guess he means pleasanton to mv, because if you were to go to sf you'd just take the bart door to door. So do you know how many engineers drive from pleasanton, or in general east bay, to mv ? I'd wager its upwards of 100k, considering the backed up traffic on 680 between 8 am to noon. now are all of these engineers fools ? the majority of them have a nice tech gig in mv at the biggest tech firms - the sexiest startups and boring profitable enterprises, a solid 150k+ paycheck, stocks, 401k etc and are paying off their mortgage in the east bay on a large 3k sq ft house in an incredible school district. the tech companies themselves encourage this behavior by plying free wifi-buses on 680 so you've done your git commits en route. so which part of this is objectionable and why ? even if facebook builds a company town in san mateo or wherever, engineers are ultimately humans who have reasonable human desires to buy a house & get hitched & start a family & send the kids to school, so all of that isn't going to happen within the confines of a company town designed for the 20 year old median programmer crowd. in all likelihood, this 40 mile commute, whether to east bay or south bay or wherever will be the norm, because the alternative is what ? all of us moving to colorado and riding our bicycles to work?! i mean i envy your frugal no-waste healthy bicycle lifestyle, but i just don't see all these engineers with giant beer bellies either. they do the 40 mile commute because there really isn't much of a choice, and most companies do offer some form of on-site fitness regimen, so the majority does keep in shape. financially the outcome is positive as well - appreciating equity in a spacious sunny california home, 7 figure retirement accounts, kids in good schools. if the only downside is a 40 mile commute, i'll take that any day of the week.

ryandrake 9y ago
I read a couple of his blog posts, and his "your doing it wrong because you don't value what I value" attitude is a huge turn-off. He probably has some great gems of wisdom but they're lost in the moralizing about why I shouldn't have a car and why I'm inferior because I didn't get a windfall and pay off my mortgage. I do that specific "mega commute" he mentions (I'm in Livermore so it's even farther), and trust me, I don't live out here because I like to commute over 100 miles each day!
ck425 9y ago

sjg007 9y ago

I find it interesting that both he and his wife were high income earner earners. That makes it easier to save appropriately and get to financial freedom sooner. I think he even notes this in some of his blog posts that the opportunity to become financially free is limited. A lot of people don't have a 3 month or 6 month reserve which I think is the first goal. Get there first.

ryanmercer317 9y ago
He and his wife are STILL high income earners. From his affiliate links, sponsored posts and going on and on about his wife's etsy business I guarantee you they are still making six figures without ever having to touch their retirement investments. Call him out on that and guess what, he will NOT approve the comment on his posts.

SandersAK 9y ago

This is such a weird content piece from YC. Is this supposed to help us understand brand marketing? If so, I want to hear from people who have piloted the brands of massively successful startups, not a guy who says he's head of a cult. Though I don't agree with or support self-help / Tim Ferris types personally, I'm open to the idea that this guy has some key insight into branding for startups, but this content doesn't really have any of that. I appreciate a hustler as much as anyone, but this guy doesn't stand out from your generic Tim Ferris / Gary Vee snake oil lifestyle sellers.

ggggtez 9y ago

Rich guy tells poor guys, "to get rich, trick poor guys to listen to you". He's not wrong but you're all fools for caring about what he has to say.

anotherproj 9y ago
He told me to save some money and invest it. I gave him nothing and have more money in the bank. How does this make me foolish?
dceddia 9y ago
His message is basically summarized as "Spend less than you earn, and invest it in index funds." He's not wrong, but I submit that the people implementing that advice aren't fools, either.
- ggggtez 9y ago
  I'm referring to his comment about starting a cult. He is right of course that finding gullible people to follow you is easy. Just say some obvious things like "don't spend all your money, save and invest!" and the sheep will flock. Maybe you gave him no money, but you spent your time and attention.

peterwwillis 9y ago

tl;dr privileged white guy tells you you can retire at 30 if you have access to >300k a year for 10 years and ride a bike

otterpro 9y ago

The easiest way to retire early is to enlist in the military, at least in the US, anyway. After 20 years of service, you are set for life with life-long retirement pension and healthcare. Of course, there's a high risk, since there's always wars and deployments, etc and many don't make it past 10 years, after they get fed up with being in the military. When I was in the army, I saw a lot of people in their early 40's who retired after their service, and many spent their time either working in another job, because of boredom of retirement, or activities like traveling. These were those who enlisted right after high school, with nothing but a HS degree, but they were doing much better off than my friends who had college and MBA.

sjg007 9y ago
It's also a great way to go to med school.
kamaal 9y ago
Military pensions continue to be the top reason why most young people across the world are attracted to join the forces. But there is a catch though. You really have to serve the minimum time. And like you said most get either fed up, or they are discharged early. The other part is in many parts of the world, there is relative peace, so its a safe bet. Plus most of the times apart from the training days, they actually see good physical exercise everyday to its like a win-win job. In India armed forces have asked for a kind of roll over pensions, where every year your pensions are revised and you are paid as much as the highest paid servicemen retiring in the rank you retired from. Of course there is a lot of opposition from the civilian side for something like this. Given the relative peace in the Indian subcontinent, in most cases its possible for many people to make it through without much risk, and if you join early, you can come out by 40, with a neat yearly increasing pension for the rest of your life. They also have short service commission jobs in the Indian army, which don't carry these benefits. And they often go unfilled for the obvious reasons.
ryanmercer317 9y ago
It's also a great way to end up with nagging injuries for the rest of your life, PTSD and or certain death.

mod 9y ago

Something that seems to be lost in this thread, which looks to be mostly a debate about whether or not early retirement is feasible for normal people: For normal people, MMM strategy is about making uncomfortable decisions (plain, reliable used cars, no fine dining, no fancy houses, no downtown-big-city living locations) to avoid the most uncomfortable thing of all: work. If you would rather have a job your whole life so you never have to eat a bean or drive a 20 year old car, you're not the target audience. People who are driven to early retirement & financial independence are people who DESPISE jobs and are willing to spend their whole life at a much smaller income bracket in exchange for not having one. They don't want your new devices, cable tv, leased cars, and downtown apartments. They agree those things are nice, but not nice enough to take on an extra 40,000 hours of "servitude" with an employer. The strategy is simple: if you can live on 20% of your income, and save the rest, then in a few years, you will have the ability to reproduce that same income indefinitely. The amount of the income doesn't matter, and that is being lost here for some reason. If you can't do 20%, you can do 30% and a few extra years. Or whatever. The MMM strategy is about ditching the job, and balancing the trade-offs to something you can stomach. If you can't stomach it, fine, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable strategy.

arthurjj 9y ago
> People who are driven to early retirement & financial independence are people who DESPISE jobs and are willing to spend their whole life at a much smaller income bracket in exchange for not having one. I was surprised by the negativity in this thread until I read this sentence. Most readers here though have the option of either finding a less terrible job or starting our own companies. When neither of those are an option eating beans sounds pretty good.
dublidu 9y ago
Just because you want to work forever doesn’t mean you will have the opportunity to. There are plenty of 50 year olds who unexpectedly find themselves out of work and unhireable.
deleted 9y ago
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jacquesm 9y ago

How disappointing to see this flagged.

jaclaz 9y ago

Only to say that there is "nothing new under the sun", Mr. Money Mustache's basic message is (was) essentially "common sense", some time ago I cited an old Italian proverb in a similar enough topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14593794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14593794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14594858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14594858 He only uses his own experience to show how it can come out in practice (and of course it needs to be scaled - down or up - depending on personal income, financial situation, family size, etc. and of course expectations). Results will of course be different, but the basic principle remains valid.

ryanmercer317 9y ago

I know the vast majority of you are 6-figure types and MMM is still making 6 figures annually from his blog and his wife's 'hobby' business and that he never actually has to touch his retirement investments and can in fact add more money to them annually than most people in the U.S. actually gross. According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; for non-Hispanic Whites, it was $31,313; for Blacks, it was $18,406; for Asians, it was $30,292; and for Hispanics, it was $15,674." It's taken me 11 years to get to 32k, I got super lucky early this summer and got hired for some remote work, full time on top of my current job, for a tech company thanks to someone at YC helping me out. A day after I started I was told I was inelligible for employment because several years ago I had to file bankruptcy. So while you all sit nice and well with your 6-figure incomes, talking about how horrible your lives are when you earn more in a year than I do in 3-5 years BEFORE your bonuses and 401k match and all the benefits you get that real businesses don't offer their employees... just know a lot of us are busting our asses just to feed ourselves.