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> if we see Microsoft making tangible changes to their behavior, and we reward that with more derision and distrust, then we aren't exactly incentivizing them -

> if we see Microsoft making tangible changes to their behavior, and we reward that with more derision and distrust, then we aren't exactly incentivizing them - or anyone wathcing - to do more Well, if we are speaking of incentives, then here's one ... Don't screw with open source or open standards or your legitimate competitors by unfair competition, because many people will never forget it, so don't be surprised if 10 years later you still have a negative image that lingers, in spite of your huge marketing department that keeps paying shills. This is much like in society really. If somebody screws me or my family, I'll probably cut all ties with that person forever. Being marginalized is a natural reaction. Why should companies have their cake and eat it too?

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
Microsoft can't undo the past, and they aren't going away. Your choice boils down to a single question: do you want the Microsoft of tomorrow to be different from the Microsoft of yesterday? If so, then quit hating and start celebrating the victories.
- vetinari 9y ago
  Their past makes their starting position now more difficult. They have to make up for their past deeds, after all. Someone, who didn't do thing like Microsoft did, has it easier now. It sounds only fair to me.
  - Delmania 9y ago
    They have nothing to atone for, and they don't owe you anything. Either you appreciate the steps they're taking, or you keep on living in the past.
    - vetinari 9y ago
      Yes, they do. They used every dirty trick in the book, and invented a few new ones. They damaged the computing environment we all have to live in. I have no problem pointing out, that this is the company that to this day possesses (and still abuses) advantages gained by playing dirty. If they want to have an image of a good guy, they have work hard on it. Harder, than any random company that appears out of the blue. The standard they are judged by is and will be definitely affected by their past.
ludwigvan 9y ago
This. We can’t forget or forgive the sins of the past, those who remember. But generations will pass, and yesterday’s sinners will become conquerors, philantropes, savior of mankind. In the end, history is written by the mighty and they can market themselves however they wish. But some won’t forget, at least not this easily. It is the least we can do.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

Microsoft can't undo the past, and they aren't going away. Your choice boils down to a single question: do you want the Microsoft of tomorrow to be different from the Microsoft of yesterday? If so, then quit hating and start celebrating the victories.

vetinari 9y ago
Their past makes their starting position now more difficult. They have to make up for their past deeds, after all. Someone, who didn't do thing like Microsoft did, has it easier now. It sounds only fair to me.
- Delmania 9y ago
  They have nothing to atone for, and they don't owe you anything. Either you appreciate the steps they're taking, or you keep on living in the past.
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Yes, they do. They used every dirty trick in the book, and invented a few new ones. They damaged the computing environment we all have to live in. I have no problem pointing out, that this is the company that to this day possesses (and still abuses) advantages gained by playing dirty. If they want to have an image of a good guy, they have work hard on it. Harder, than any random company that appears out of the blue. The standard they are judged by is and will be definitely affected by their past.

ludwigvan 9y ago

This. We can’t forget or forgive the sins of the past, those who remember. But generations will pass, and yesterday’s sinners will become conquerors, philantropes, savior of mankind. In the end, history is written by the mighty and they can market themselves however they wish. But some won’t forget, at least not this easily. It is the least we can do.