4 ms·

It is not trivial to prevent at all. You need to spend money and fraud prevention effort at every trust point. All of this costs literal salaries of people who

by zxcmx 9y ago

It is not trivial to prevent at all. You need to spend money and fraud prevention effort at every trust point. All of this costs literal salaries of people who say "no computer says no" at every point. Those people also suffer risk of physical assault. In the electronic space you need to pay for "social media consultants" and look after twitter and facebook and such. You would be surprised how incredibly expensive the things you seem to take for granted are, to a large organisation which pays proper wages to people. Practically speaking if your personal details have been disclosed by some douchebag fucking company it is very difficult to distinguish you as a caller from some random internet asshole impersonating you.

snarf21 9y ago
Not attacking you but you've lost me. How does switching to chip+pin at the gas pump instead of zip code cost "salaries of people" or "risk of physical assault"? There might be a cost to upgrade the panels to read the chip but they need upgraded anyway with electro-mechanical locks to prevent skimmers anyway. There are also savings in police, courts, incarceration, etc. This won't stop all obviously, but there is a subset of criminals who perform CC fraud because it is so easy and hard to get caught.
- zxcmx 9y ago
  Chip and pin switch is the best case. Think about all your other accounts. Gas, power, water, fines, etc. Also i don't know have ever been involved in an "it upgrade" project and what it means to have the gas pumps now do different things. I want life to not be like that, but I think you would find its a bit harder than you are imagining.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Tuna-Fish 9y ago
    > Think about all your other accounts. Gas, power, water, fines, etc. The way those work in the rest of the world is basically by giro. You control your bank account, and the only possible transaction is you sending out money to other bank accounts. If I provide you a service I need to get paid, I send you a bill, either in paper form (that you can read with your smartphone) or electronically. You look it over and make the decision to pay or not. The system is not perfect and fraud still exists (mostly in the form of trying to pass a fake bill as a real one), but fraud is much less prevalent than in the US system.
    - thwarted 9y ago
      If I provide you a service I need to get paid, I send you a bill, either in paper form (that you can read with your smartphone) or electronically. You look it over and make the decision to pay or not. The problem is that that someone else can claim to be me at my address to you (the impersonator), you send the bill to me (the authentic). I look this bill over and decide not to pay because I didn't request these services. Now we have a dispute, all due a third-party who impersonated me. Unfortunately, this is also exploitable by me to later claim I didn't purchase the service from you, which I might do to avoid paying. There's currently no easy way for you, as the service provider, to authenticate the request without an out-of-band opt-in (mailing a contract to the same place you'd send the bill to confirm that the services would be paid for), which would delay the delivery of said services. By the time the third-party has received the services and you've sent the bill to the authentic party, the impersonating party is long gone, and the authentic party is left holding the bag as the less powerful party in the exchange/dispute.

by zxcmx 9y ago

snarf21 9y ago

Not attacking you but you've lost me. How does switching to chip+pin at the gas pump instead of zip code cost "salaries of people" or "risk of physical assault"? There might be a cost to upgrade the panels to read the chip but they need upgraded anyway with electro-mechanical locks to prevent skimmers anyway. There are also savings in police, courts, incarceration, etc. This won't stop all obviously, but there is a subset of criminals who perform CC fraud because it is so easy and hard to get caught.

zxcmx 9y ago
Chip and pin switch is the best case. Think about all your other accounts. Gas, power, water, fines, etc. Also i don't know have ever been involved in an "it upgrade" project and what it means to have the gas pumps now do different things. I want life to not be like that, but I think you would find its a bit harder than you are imagining.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Tuna-Fish 9y ago
  > Think about all your other accounts. Gas, power, water, fines, etc. The way those work in the rest of the world is basically by giro. You control your bank account, and the only possible transaction is you sending out money to other bank accounts. If I provide you a service I need to get paid, I send you a bill, either in paper form (that you can read with your smartphone) or electronically. You look it over and make the decision to pay or not. The system is not perfect and fraud still exists (mostly in the form of trying to pass a fake bill as a real one), but fraud is much less prevalent than in the US system.
  - thwarted 9y ago
    If I provide you a service I need to get paid, I send you a bill, either in paper form (that you can read with your smartphone) or electronically. You look it over and make the decision to pay or not. The problem is that that someone else can claim to be me at my address to you (the impersonator), you send the bill to me (the authentic). I look this bill over and decide not to pay because I didn't request these services. Now we have a dispute, all due a third-party who impersonated me. Unfortunately, this is also exploitable by me to later claim I didn't purchase the service from you, which I might do to avoid paying. There's currently no easy way for you, as the service provider, to authenticate the request without an out-of-band opt-in (mailing a contract to the same place you'd send the bill to confirm that the services would be paid for), which would delay the delivery of said services. By the time the third-party has received the services and you've sent the bill to the authentic party, the impersonating party is long gone, and the authentic party is left holding the bag as the less powerful party in the exchange/dispute.