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People are complaining about Flash? I've got quite a few stories from doing integration work with refrigeration systems. Mind you, most of these systems are mea

People are complaining about Flash? I've got quite a few stories from doing integration work with refrigeration systems. Mind you, most of these systems are meant to be used daily by the staff at ordinary grocery stores. - One vendor requires a leaky JRE 1.5 to run their configuration tool, originally written for Windows CE around 2007. You need to keep it inside a VM and disable automatic Java updates. - A newer system from the same company requires Flash. Most customers opt for the Java based one, because the newer system is unsuitable for anything but the smallest sites (frozen foods melting at high bus and CPU loads). - The web GUI on another company's product wants a browser Java plugin that accepts unsigned certs. - The web GUI on a third company's product requires the user to accept unsigned certs, even though these systems are never exposed to the internet (RFC 1918 and certificates are inherently incompatible). The GUI is a stateful JSP frameset hell. - Yet another company that no longer makes refrigeration systems requires DOS-based software. Luckily its volume ID based copy protection does not work under Windows XP. EDIT: Fixed line breaks for readability

wyager 9y ago
Why the hell do grocery store refrigerators require a web GUI? The most complicated computer in the whole system should maybe be an 8-bit microcontroller. For massive industrial-scale refrigeration and storage, it might also make sense to add, say, a serial port.
- arghwhat 9y ago
  Well, for a fleet of refrigerators, it might be nice to have a place to see data from the entire fleet. Power requirements, temperature, failures or failure indicators, etc. A large supermarket would most likely want something like that. With serial ports, they'd have to design a system themselves, including the boxes to attach to the individual serial ports. Of course, for a technically skilled individual, a serial port is much preferable.
  - anilakar 9y ago
    Temperature logging is mandated by HACCP-related regulations. Without a centralized system one would have store clerks running around with thermometers and a clipboard. The maintenance company can do remote supervision, troubleshooting and optimization. Also, having an overview of all stores helps one pick out the ones that are wasting electricity. Disclaimer: Our company's main product is used to collect data from refrigeration systems into one vendor-independent, Flash-free web UI. We do pretty much everything ranging from web development to reverse engineering and hardware design.
- anilakar 9y ago
  You're thinking of refrigeration cabinets with small separate compressors, just like an average person has at home? Post-eighties refrigeration systems even at small sites are inherently more complex and yes, they have features that make them comparable to industrial systems.
nikcub 9y ago
This is what enterprise IT is all about - supporting legacy systems. It's different when you have a controlled environment. The standards for consumer products are different - especially in a case where your website requires a plugin that your own browser has deprecated.
- anilakar 9y ago
  Users of these systems are store clerks with IT skills on par with your average consumer.

wyager 9y ago

Why the hell do grocery store refrigerators require a web GUI? The most complicated computer in the whole system should maybe be an 8-bit microcontroller. For massive industrial-scale refrigeration and storage, it might also make sense to add, say, a serial port.

arghwhat 9y ago
Well, for a fleet of refrigerators, it might be nice to have a place to see data from the entire fleet. Power requirements, temperature, failures or failure indicators, etc. A large supermarket would most likely want something like that. With serial ports, they'd have to design a system themselves, including the boxes to attach to the individual serial ports. Of course, for a technically skilled individual, a serial port is much preferable.
- anilakar 9y ago
  Temperature logging is mandated by HACCP-related regulations. Without a centralized system one would have store clerks running around with thermometers and a clipboard. The maintenance company can do remote supervision, troubleshooting and optimization. Also, having an overview of all stores helps one pick out the ones that are wasting electricity. Disclaimer: Our company's main product is used to collect data from refrigeration systems into one vendor-independent, Flash-free web UI. We do pretty much everything ranging from web development to reverse engineering and hardware design.
anilakar 9y ago
You're thinking of refrigeration cabinets with small separate compressors, just like an average person has at home? Post-eighties refrigeration systems even at small sites are inherently more complex and yes, they have features that make them comparable to industrial systems.

nikcub 9y ago

This is what enterprise IT is all about - supporting legacy systems. It's different when you have a controlled environment. The standards for consumer products are different - especially in a case where your website requires a plugin that your own browser has deprecated.

anilakar 9y ago
Users of these systems are store clerks with IT skills on par with your average consumer.