4 ms·

> that's not beyond implementation It may be in the US. Because of Revelation 13:16-17: "16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and b

> that's not beyond implementation It may be in the US. Because of Revelation 13:16-17: "16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads; 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." That's why national ID is difficult to sell here. Sorry.

SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
You seem to be under the impression that the national ID in Sweden is in the form of some kind of tattoo?
- scotty79 9y ago
  > receive a mark in their right hand I guess if you got your ID by picking it up with your right hand it still is the mark of the beast.
brlewis 9y ago
I don't think mrweasel's comment was proposing national ID as a solution to "identity theft". It was just positing that solutions must exist other than keeping identifying information secret.
mcdonje 9y ago
I thought barcodes are already the mark of the beast. https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/
- 0xfeba 9y ago
  Then it was RFIDs, then Obamacare, then... God's perfect wisdom just keeps getting lost in translation, what a shame!
cat199 9y ago
Yet bank accounts typically require at least a copy of state-issued ID to open, all without national ID! Part of the resistance to national ID is also a question of federalism - we do not officially have a 'national government' - we have a 'federal government', even though in practice it is hardly federal anymore.
- turk184 9y ago
  The Real ID Act establishes a national identity whether we want to admit it or not--states have to knuckle under. That the Federal Gov doesn't have some central database doesn't make it any less of a de facto national ID. Also, now that you must have one to fly (or a passport) we're inching ever closer to that police state. I didn't have to be this way--we can see from the Equifax and OPM incidents that all this data aggregation is as dangerous as anything else. I support aviation security, but not all the big government, police state add-ons that are there mainly to increase the profits of major political donor corporations.
- jmcs 9y ago
  You don't need national ID if every state issues a real ID document. There's no European wide ID but national IDs of all EU countries are accepted everywhere by law and it works.
zxcmx 9y ago
Well shit thats what peope don't get. You accept a shitty system that kinda works or a national system that works super well that looks like modern fascism with good biometrics. Choose your poison. Carefully.
- zanny 9y ago
  Since when is providing a way to identify people facism? This isn't the 18th century. Economics are global. You cannot just use the fact you've known the shopkeep your whole life as an authentication service. Either we have a good functioning way to uniquely identify people or we don't. If you have the former, you could use it for evil, in much the same way as how with the later it is used for evil a lot with the various frauds talked about in the OP. If the government wants to do evil it will do so with or without national ID, but the ability for fraudsters to do evil is dependent on there being no effective and secure universal identification. I'm going to guarantee that the NSA tracking profiles on every US citizen don't need national ID cards to pick you out of a crowd. They could build a comprehensive identity database from CCTV and store cameras whenever you buy something to build a complete and hardened profile to identify you with. They have access to way more than enough material to start branding the "undesirables" and having them carted off to gas chambers within a week. We just suffer in the meantime under this false belief that ID cards are the make or break of liberty.
  - zxcmx 9y ago
    I upvoted you and I think you made your point well, I just feel the opposite way to you. Thanks btw :) I would prefer shitty nonfunctioning systems which still allow me to use cash and buy a bowl of noodles to the alternative where I need to be more or less authorised to make that transaction. But thats just me.
theandrewbailey 9y ago
US already has national IDs. They're called Social Security Numbers.
- snuxoll 9y ago
  CGPGrey did an excellent video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus

SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago

You seem to be under the impression that the national ID in Sweden is in the form of some kind of tattoo?

scotty79 9y ago
> receive a mark in their right hand I guess if you got your ID by picking it up with your right hand it still is the mark of the beast.

brlewis 9y ago

I don't think mrweasel's comment was proposing national ID as a solution to "identity theft". It was just positing that solutions must exist other than keeping identifying information secret.

mcdonje 9y ago

I thought barcodes are already the mark of the beast. https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/

0xfeba 9y ago
Then it was RFIDs, then Obamacare, then... God's perfect wisdom just keeps getting lost in translation, what a shame!

cat199 9y ago

Yet bank accounts typically require at least a copy of state-issued ID to open, all without national ID! Part of the resistance to national ID is also a question of federalism - we do not officially have a 'national government' - we have a 'federal government', even though in practice it is hardly federal anymore.

turk184 9y ago
The Real ID Act establishes a national identity whether we want to admit it or not--states have to knuckle under. That the Federal Gov doesn't have some central database doesn't make it any less of a de facto national ID. Also, now that you must have one to fly (or a passport) we're inching ever closer to that police state. I didn't have to be this way--we can see from the Equifax and OPM incidents that all this data aggregation is as dangerous as anything else. I support aviation security, but not all the big government, police state add-ons that are there mainly to increase the profits of major political donor corporations.
jmcs 9y ago
You don't need national ID if every state issues a real ID document. There's no European wide ID but national IDs of all EU countries are accepted everywhere by law and it works.

zxcmx 9y ago

Well shit thats what peope don't get. You accept a shitty system that kinda works or a national system that works super well that looks like modern fascism with good biometrics. Choose your poison. Carefully.

zanny 9y ago
Since when is providing a way to identify people facism? This isn't the 18th century. Economics are global. You cannot just use the fact you've known the shopkeep your whole life as an authentication service. Either we have a good functioning way to uniquely identify people or we don't. If you have the former, you could use it for evil, in much the same way as how with the later it is used for evil a lot with the various frauds talked about in the OP. If the government wants to do evil it will do so with or without national ID, but the ability for fraudsters to do evil is dependent on there being no effective and secure universal identification. I'm going to guarantee that the NSA tracking profiles on every US citizen don't need national ID cards to pick you out of a crowd. They could build a comprehensive identity database from CCTV and store cameras whenever you buy something to build a complete and hardened profile to identify you with. They have access to way more than enough material to start branding the "undesirables" and having them carted off to gas chambers within a week. We just suffer in the meantime under this false belief that ID cards are the make or break of liberty.
- zxcmx 9y ago
  I upvoted you and I think you made your point well, I just feel the opposite way to you. Thanks btw :) I would prefer shitty nonfunctioning systems which still allow me to use cash and buy a bowl of noodles to the alternative where I need to be more or less authorised to make that transaction. But thats just me.

theandrewbailey 9y ago

US already has national IDs. They're called Social Security Numbers.

snuxoll 9y ago
CGPGrey did an excellent video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus