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If you are having to spend your time and resources to clean up a mess that was not of your making, not to mention prove yourself innocent of making it, then you

If you are having to spend your time and resources to clean up a mess that was not of your making, not to mention prove yourself innocent of making it, then you are most certainly a victim in some sense. You have a point about insurance, though I would argue that corporations should be required to carry identity theft insurance in proportion to the amount of personal data that they collect and store, for the benefit of the victims created as a result of the theft and misuse of said data.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
But the point is that the bank is who makes you a victim by baselessly asserting that you are responsible for their blunders. You are not the victim of someone pretending to be you, the bank is. You are the victim of the bank making you spend resources on cleaning up their failure.
- falcolas 9y ago
  This only matters because a measure of blame is assigned to the victims. Even if we switch the words around and call it bank fraud, individual whose identity was copied will still be the one to endure the pain and effort of putting their affairs back in order.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
    Except it probably doesn't, framing matters. People put up with it because they are led to believe that it's their problem, just like if someone broke into their home and stole their TV. People would be much less likely to accept the same reasoning from their bank if it were not stated as "Someone stole your identity, we are sorry you have to pay this", but instead as "A third party defrauded us, we are sorry you have to pay this".
turk184 9y ago
There was a word I ran across that perfectly describes how western financial firms operate and it is "Bezzle." The Bezzle is that low-ethics mode of operation where all extraneous costs are off-loaded to bagholders like you and me and whoever else isn't "them". The Bezzle doesn't concern itself with your problems or your legal hassles, even if it caused them, as long as there is plausible deniability. The government operates in much the same fashion because the government is made up of the same types of weasels as the financial industry is.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago

But the point is that the bank is who makes you a victim by baselessly asserting that you are responsible for their blunders. You are not the victim of someone pretending to be you, the bank is. You are the victim of the bank making you spend resources on cleaning up their failure.

falcolas 9y ago
This only matters because a measure of blame is assigned to the victims. Even if we switch the words around and call it bank fraud, individual whose identity was copied will still be the one to endure the pain and effort of putting their affairs back in order.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
  Except it probably doesn't, framing matters. People put up with it because they are led to believe that it's their problem, just like if someone broke into their home and stole their TV. People would be much less likely to accept the same reasoning from their bank if it were not stated as "Someone stole your identity, we are sorry you have to pay this", but instead as "A third party defrauded us, we are sorry you have to pay this".

turk184 9y ago

There was a word I ran across that perfectly describes how western financial firms operate and it is "Bezzle." The Bezzle is that low-ethics mode of operation where all extraneous costs are off-loaded to bagholders like you and me and whoever else isn't "them". The Bezzle doesn't concern itself with your problems or your legal hassles, even if it caused them, as long as there is plausible deniability. The government operates in much the same fashion because the government is made up of the same types of weasels as the financial industry is.