4 ms·

Devil's advocate: You're supporting `n` billion devices around the world running your product, and the users are typically non-technical (from "I know how to op

Devil's advocate: You're supporting `n` billion devices around the world running your product, and the users are typically non-technical (from "I know how to open Word" to "Where's the 'Any' key?") You need to battle against your competitor's product that "just work" because they can target one specific hardware profile and you can't, so you put in telemetry to improve compatibility. Makes sense. It enrages us, the technically-minded and privacy conscious, but only serves to make Windows better for the non-techies and help MS stop haemorrhaging users to iOS.

notalaser 9y ago
So put a big red scary "PRESS THIS BUTTON AND YOU'LL GET HACKED IN TEN MINUTES UNLESS YOUR COMPUTER DOES NOT CRASH BEFORE THAT" that turns telemetry off and let me press it.
- nulagrithom 9y ago
  Ever worked the help desk? My users would push that button twice then call me in 5 minutes to tell me their computer has been hacked (just after it crashed of course). I hate the telematics and the "anti-user" stubbornness of Windows in general, but at the same time, I know all too well who they're targeting and why. More and more of my less technical users are requesting Macs, which are a PITA to admin but at the same time generate fewer tickets because they're really hard to fuck up. I don't like seeing Windows move this direction, but I get it.
tyfon 9y ago
If they used the collected data only for compatibility improvements and discarded it when done. If they allowed me to opt-in and I could shut off _all_ other telemetry. If I trusted Microsoft. Then we could talk :)
- bousaid 9y ago
  They actually have incredibly strict policies about user privacy. Everyone in the company recently had to watch a short movie (with actual actors and realistic scenarios) about appropriate data usage and permissions.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
> and the users are typically non-technical (from "I know how to open Word" to "Where's the 'Any' key?") This isn't nearly as true as it used to be, because those people are on phones and tablets now. People who actually use desktops fall into one of 3 categories: content creators, office workers, and gamers. Microsoft has ruined Windows by trying to make it into a webapp with a tablet UI in a vain effort to recapture that audience. Meanwhile, the Linux Desktop has sacrificed any chance it once had of being decent by constantly sacrificing transparency of operation on the alter of "just works". So here we are, stuck in a world where a really shitty version of Windows is still just barely the least-worst choice.
- arca_vorago 9y ago
  You had me until the Linux part. I've been using GNU+Linux and BSD as an OS since the late 90s. I've supported windows and osx as a sysadmins as well. Windows is not the least worst choice, and gnu/Linux has made huge strides in the past few years towards just works. That said though,one of my issues is this concept that everyone should be able to use a computer without learning how. Comp uters are inherently technical, its not that hard to learn. Its like what I started telling all the old people who kept saying, at the workplace, "I don't know computers..." Or some variation. My response, well you better learn or you aren't going to have a job much longer... I just don't get the want for a chimpanzee usable OS.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
    > Linux has made huge strides in the past few years towards just works This is precisely my point. "Just works" is great, until something doesn't "just work", then you have to untangle a pile of complex and opaque interactions, often with poor and outdated documentation, to make something work. In the past, Windows at least had relatively straight-forward mechanisms of operation that were all well documented and, importantly, didn't ever change all that much. That's starting to change now because MS has moved to the web-developer model of making breaking changes, and not documenting them, in rolling releases. But, it still has significant advantages in all 3 of the use cases I mentioned, so it manages to be slightly better. What both desktops need to return to, in my idiot-on-the-internet opinion, is simplicity of operation of the underlying mechanisms. The OS doesn't have to be understandable by a chimpanzee, but it should be relatively intuitive and understandable for the average person who's willing to dig in to how things work.

notalaser 9y ago

So put a big red scary "PRESS THIS BUTTON AND YOU'LL GET HACKED IN TEN MINUTES UNLESS YOUR COMPUTER DOES NOT CRASH BEFORE THAT" that turns telemetry off and let me press it.

nulagrithom 9y ago
Ever worked the help desk? My users would push that button twice then call me in 5 minutes to tell me their computer has been hacked (just after it crashed of course). I hate the telematics and the "anti-user" stubbornness of Windows in general, but at the same time, I know all too well who they're targeting and why. More and more of my less technical users are requesting Macs, which are a PITA to admin but at the same time generate fewer tickets because they're really hard to fuck up. I don't like seeing Windows move this direction, but I get it.

tyfon 9y ago

If they used the collected data only for compatibility improvements and discarded it when done. If they allowed me to opt-in and I could shut off _all_ other telemetry. If I trusted Microsoft. Then we could talk :)

bousaid 9y ago
They actually have incredibly strict policies about user privacy. Everyone in the company recently had to watch a short movie (with actual actors and realistic scenarios) about appropriate data usage and permissions.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago

> and the users are typically non-technical (from "I know how to open Word" to "Where's the 'Any' key?") This isn't nearly as true as it used to be, because those people are on phones and tablets now. People who actually use desktops fall into one of 3 categories: content creators, office workers, and gamers. Microsoft has ruined Windows by trying to make it into a webapp with a tablet UI in a vain effort to recapture that audience. Meanwhile, the Linux Desktop has sacrificed any chance it once had of being decent by constantly sacrificing transparency of operation on the alter of "just works". So here we are, stuck in a world where a really shitty version of Windows is still just barely the least-worst choice.

arca_vorago 9y ago
You had me until the Linux part. I've been using GNU+Linux and BSD as an OS since the late 90s. I've supported windows and osx as a sysadmins as well. Windows is not the least worst choice, and gnu/Linux has made huge strides in the past few years towards just works. That said though,one of my issues is this concept that everyone should be able to use a computer without learning how. Comp uters are inherently technical, its not that hard to learn. Its like what I started telling all the old people who kept saying, at the workplace, "I don't know computers..." Or some variation. My response, well you better learn or you aren't going to have a job much longer... I just don't get the want for a chimpanzee usable OS.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
  > Linux has made huge strides in the past few years towards just works This is precisely my point. "Just works" is great, until something doesn't "just work", then you have to untangle a pile of complex and opaque interactions, often with poor and outdated documentation, to make something work. In the past, Windows at least had relatively straight-forward mechanisms of operation that were all well documented and, importantly, didn't ever change all that much. That's starting to change now because MS has moved to the web-developer model of making breaking changes, and not documenting them, in rolling releases. But, it still has significant advantages in all 3 of the use cases I mentioned, so it manages to be slightly better. What both desktops need to return to, in my idiot-on-the-internet opinion, is simplicity of operation of the underlying mechanisms. The OS doesn't have to be understandable by a chimpanzee, but it should be relatively intuitive and understandable for the average person who's willing to dig in to how things work.