5 ms·

I think we're close to 1984 world and thought control... but coming from tech giants like Facebook and Google.

by Jerry2 9y ago

oh_sigh 9y ago
If our thought is controlled, it is only because we allow it.
wallace_f 9y ago
Ever once in a while I link someone or mentioned what is in articles such as these, below, and I rarely find people believe it until they read it in name-brand media. Maybe I am wrong but from 9/11 to the Snowden leaks to now it feels like we are on some accelerated path towards 1984 where conspiracy theories are becoming reality. For example: the US gov actively influences movies and TV scripts for propaganda purposes: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-expose-direct-us-military-intelligence-influence-on-1-800-movies-and-tv-shows-36433107c307 https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-... Another: US Gov created an incredibly false narrative about Iraq to set the stage for the War on Terror. https://theintercept.com/2016/12/15/if-donald-trump-is-so-upset-about-iraq-wmd-lies-why-is-he-hiring-john-bolton/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/15/if-donald-trump-is-so-up... DoD spent millions researching how to manipulate Twitter users: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/darpa-social-networks-research-twitter-influence-studies https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/darpa-social-n... We need more decentralized power in media, not less.
- vkou 9y ago
  None of these adventures are anything new. The US government had been responsible for blatant propaganda in film and print, lied about causes of wars, and spied on, sabotaged, suppressed, and manipulated domestic political movements for decades. This has been happening since the Red Scare gave the ruling classes something to lose sleep over.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    I have never seen a poll on something like "do you think the US government is actively manipulating media?" Or, "what do you think the odds are this TV show was scripted by the US government to shape your opinion on an issue?" The thing is I think many see this as the realm of conspiracy theory; and maybe public opinion of establishment media would change if they thought differently
- jules 9y ago
  In my experience of telling people these things, there is only a nanosecond between a person saying "that's ridiculous, that can't possibly be true" and saying "of course that's happening, who ever thought otherwise?".
bad_user 9y ago
1984 is very unrealistic. I personally found it boring. People should study what happened in the Easter European countries from the Warsaw Pact, like Romania. The interesting thing about our former communists and their security apparatus was that they did not need high tech gadgets, video cameras or online social networks to keep tabs on everybody, you simply need an army an informers. And in a society where people want to be more equal than others, you'll find plenty of people that want to be informers, on every street, in any apartment building, in any group, people that will betray their friends and colleagues for free. Plenty of unrealistic things in the 1984 novel actually. "Newspeak" for example doesn't need to happen because of a government mandate to ban words. Oh no, there's no need for that. Language simply gets stupid over time, as the public discourse simply becomes "wooden language", from the French "langue de bois", as a natural consequence of having uneducated people in charge yielding unlimited power and controlling the media. The threat is actually not Facebook or Google, but rather the people, which are guilty of normalizing behavior that should not be normalized ;-)
- adrian_b 9y ago
  I agree with these observations. Unfortunately the people who lived all their lives in North America and Western Europe are very naive about what the communist societies really were and they are not aware that during the last 25 years their countries have evolved continuously, becoming every year more and more similar to the former communist countries. This refers not only to surveillance, censorship and loss of rights, but also to the creation of quasi-monopolies in almost every domain. Most people seem not to realize that communism was not different from capitalism, but it was the worst form of capitalism, where everything was done by a monopoly.
tobylane 9y ago
1984 was about a government doing it to us and we are aware. Huxley's A Brave New World was about capitalism doing it to us and we're unaware. It's a heavily underused better fitting reference.
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  I think your comment is underrated, and hopefully doesn't go unnoticed. You aren't the first one to say it, either. As a whole the experience people are trying to explain is far closer to A Brave New World. The US government isn't doing this. (though it's currently trying to with Trump's "Real News"[0] and constant dismissal of heritage journalism outlets) This is the after effects of being sedated and corralled and along the path to the end-game of saturated materialism, if it's anything at all. I'm not so convinced. I think both Orwell and Huxley were brilliant guys, but they had nowhere near the full picture. Present reality is far too complex to tie it up in a little bow and designate an overarching bad guy. --- [0] https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10159584295995725/ https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/1015958429599572...

I think we're close to 1984 world and thought control... but coming from tech giants like Facebook and Google.

by Jerry2 9y ago

I think we're close to 1984 world and thought control... but coming from tech giants like Facebook and Google.

oh_sigh 9y ago

If our thought is controlled, it is only because we allow it.

wallace_f 9y ago

Ever once in a while I link someone or mentioned what is in articles such as these, below, and I rarely find people believe it until they read it in name-brand media. Maybe I am wrong but from 9/11 to the Snowden leaks to now it feels like we are on some accelerated path towards 1984 where conspiracy theories are becoming reality. For example: the US gov actively influences movies and TV scripts for propaganda purposes: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-expose-direct-us-military-intelligence-influence-on-1-800-movies-and-tv-shows-36433107c307 https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-... Another: US Gov created an incredibly false narrative about Iraq to set the stage for the War on Terror. https://theintercept.com/2016/12/15/if-donald-trump-is-so-upset-about-iraq-wmd-lies-why-is-he-hiring-john-bolton/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/15/if-donald-trump-is-so-up... DoD spent millions researching how to manipulate Twitter users: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/darpa-social-networks-research-twitter-influence-studies https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/darpa-social-n... We need more decentralized power in media, not less.

vkou 9y ago
None of these adventures are anything new. The US government had been responsible for blatant propaganda in film and print, lied about causes of wars, and spied on, sabotaged, suppressed, and manipulated domestic political movements for decades. This has been happening since the Red Scare gave the ruling classes something to lose sleep over.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  I have never seen a poll on something like "do you think the US government is actively manipulating media?" Or, "what do you think the odds are this TV show was scripted by the US government to shape your opinion on an issue?" The thing is I think many see this as the realm of conspiracy theory; and maybe public opinion of establishment media would change if they thought differently
jules 9y ago
In my experience of telling people these things, there is only a nanosecond between a person saying "that's ridiculous, that can't possibly be true" and saying "of course that's happening, who ever thought otherwise?".

bad_user 9y ago

1984 is very unrealistic. I personally found it boring. People should study what happened in the Easter European countries from the Warsaw Pact, like Romania. The interesting thing about our former communists and their security apparatus was that they did not need high tech gadgets, video cameras or online social networks to keep tabs on everybody, you simply need an army an informers. And in a society where people want to be more equal than others, you'll find plenty of people that want to be informers, on every street, in any apartment building, in any group, people that will betray their friends and colleagues for free. Plenty of unrealistic things in the 1984 novel actually. "Newspeak" for example doesn't need to happen because of a government mandate to ban words. Oh no, there's no need for that. Language simply gets stupid over time, as the public discourse simply becomes "wooden language", from the French "langue de bois", as a natural consequence of having uneducated people in charge yielding unlimited power and controlling the media. The threat is actually not Facebook or Google, but rather the people, which are guilty of normalizing behavior that should not be normalized ;-)

adrian_b 9y ago
I agree with these observations. Unfortunately the people who lived all their lives in North America and Western Europe are very naive about what the communist societies really were and they are not aware that during the last 25 years their countries have evolved continuously, becoming every year more and more similar to the former communist countries. This refers not only to surveillance, censorship and loss of rights, but also to the creation of quasi-monopolies in almost every domain. Most people seem not to realize that communism was not different from capitalism, but it was the worst form of capitalism, where everything was done by a monopoly.

tobylane 9y ago

1984 was about a government doing it to us and we are aware. Huxley's A Brave New World was about capitalism doing it to us and we're unaware. It's a heavily underused better fitting reference.

52-6F-62 9y ago
I think your comment is underrated, and hopefully doesn't go unnoticed. You aren't the first one to say it, either. As a whole the experience people are trying to explain is far closer to A Brave New World. The US government isn't doing this. (though it's currently trying to with Trump's "Real News"[0] and constant dismissal of heritage journalism outlets) This is the after effects of being sedated and corralled and along the path to the end-game of saturated materialism, if it's anything at all. I'm not so convinced. I think both Orwell and Huxley were brilliant guys, but they had nowhere near the full picture. Present reality is far too complex to tie it up in a little bow and designate an overarching bad guy. --- [0] https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10159584295995725/ https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/1015958429599572...